From ps at sun-code.com  Tue Jan  1 09:45:48 2008
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:45:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Select Highlights Global Disruptive Tech 
Message-ID: <001201c84c84$ffe1a0b0$ffa4e210$@com>

Adobe Air :: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/
Google Gears :: http://gears.google.com/
MS Silverlight  :: http://silverlight.net/

BT Vision :: http://www.btvision.bt.com/vision/index.htm
Orange :: http://www.orange.co.uk/
O2 :: http://www.o2.co.uk/
Skype :: http://www.skype.com/intl/en-gb/
Truphone :: http://www.truphone.com/
Jahja :: http://www.jajah.com/

XO Laptop :: http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/explore.php
ASUS EEE PC  :: http://event.asus.com/eeepc/microsites/en/index.htm

:()>  hpy nu yr n grrrt tidings 2 u n urs

Warmest regards, 
?
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code Interactive
Sun-code.com 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com




From jonathanw at amoeba.co.za  Tue Jan  1 12:15:47 2008
From: jonathanw at amoeba.co.za (Jonathan Wagener)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:15:47 +0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP multiple image upload using a zip file 
In-Reply-To: <B1B7EFFF199946A489196A9D045ACE24@ABS.Office>
References: <B1B7EFFF199946A489196A9D045ACE24@ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A94C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>

 Hi, i am trying to add a function my gallery app that i builkt in php/mysql to allow people to upload a zip file of JPG images and the system would extract the JPGs, rename them, reference them in MySQL, create thumbnails, and then move the images to their directories.

I have seen this function in all the galleries that i have looked at and have googled the problem but i have not found a good answer. I have been struggling with this issue for two days now.


Jonathan Wagener
     Web Developer / Architect
     Amoeba Business Solutions
     Cell:    +27 72 928 0513
     Office: +27 21 785 1424
     Web:    www.amoeba.co.za
     Blog:   www.espresso-online.info 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
Sent: 01 January 2008 19:15
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 1

Send talk mailing list submissions to
	talk at lists.nyphp.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. OT: MidwestSource?? (Thomas O'Neill)
   2. [OT] Select Highlights Global Disruptive Tech  (Peter Sawczynec)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:24:44 -0600
From: "Thomas O'Neill" <tommyo at gmail.com>
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: MidwestSource??
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID:
	<d0cb92620712311224k20bb6cb3x24f39b435c67aba0 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

First off I want to apologize for the blatant solicitation.  I have been actively following this list for about 4 years and have found the discussion on all things web development related an outstanding resource.  The group has great participation and members that often provide excellent advice to the PHP development community.  I hope that I am not out of line seeking some business advice.  I work for a growing web development company in Minneapolis, MN (4+ years 45+ employees) and we are looking to expand our customer base to the east coast.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a company rooted in the Midwest to get in on the action out east?  Does anyone need a partner to supplement their workload?  We are an agile development shop with ~30 programmers that bills ~1000 hours/week.

Thomas O'Neill
Director of Software Development
Sierra Bravo Corporation
http://www.sierra-bravo.com
Email: toneill at sierra-bravo.com
Cell: (612) 327-0574
Direct: (952) 567-6316
Main Office: (952) 948-1211
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:45:48 -0500
From: "Peter Sawczynec" <ps at sun-code.com>
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Select Highlights Global Disruptive Tech
To: "'Org, Talk at Nyphp.'" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <001201c84c84$ffe1a0b0$ffa4e210$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Adobe Air :: http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/air/
Google Gears :: http://gears.google.com/ MS Silverlight  :: http://silverlight.net/

BT Vision :: http://www.btvision.bt.com/vision/index.htm
Orange :: http://www.orange.co.uk/
O2 :: http://www.o2.co.uk/
Skype :: http://www.skype.com/intl/en-gb/ Truphone :: http://www.truphone.com/ Jahja :: http://www.jajah.com/

XO Laptop :: http://www.laptopgiving.org/en/explore.php
ASUS EEE PC  :: http://event.asus.com/eeepc/microsites/en/index.htm

:()>  hpy nu yr n grrrt tidings 2 u n urs

Warmest regards, 
?
Peter Sawczynec
Technology Dir.
Sun-code Interactive
Sun-code.com
646.316.3678
ps at sun-code.com




------------------------------

_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nyphp.org
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

End of talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 1
***********************************




From ramons at gmx.net  Tue Jan  1 13:36:44 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:36:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP multiple image upload using a zip file
In-Reply-To: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A94C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
References: <B1B7EFFF199946A489196A9D045ACE24@ABS.Office>
	<E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A94C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <477A883C.80201@gmx.net>

Jonathan Wagener wrote:
>  Hi, i am trying to add a function my gallery app that i builkt in php/mysql to allow people to upload a zip file of JPG images and the system would extract the JPGs, rename them, reference them in MySQL, create thumbnails, and then move the images to their directories.
> 
> I have seen this function in all the galleries that i have looked at and have googled the problem but i have not found a good answer. I have been struggling with this issue for two days now.
> 
> Jonathan Wagener

Hi!

I added this to my piviviewer app (Picture & Video Viewer) and it works great. 
I call the feature 'turboload' as I managed to jam 800 jpegs straight from my 
camera into my system within a matter of minutes. I store the images with a 
dummy name so that I can later query for it and add the description and search 
tags whenever I like. I attached the two scripts that show the upload form 
allowing for both direct upload or using the cURL library to obtain the file 
from somewhere else (for example the FTP server that is on the web server, so 
one can first upload via FTP and then load from the same box, which makes 
things much quicker within the app). The zip library is then used to unzip the 
files and add them to the system. I also use exif to read out the date stamp 
as I let my system arrange the uploaded images in a directory structure that 
is based on year and month. That way I have at least some structure that I can 
outside of the app.
In case you wonder, I made my app to be language aware so that some of the 
queries go to language dependent tables. The current user language and some of 
the basic file paths are stored in $_SESSION, so you will find several 
references to $_SESSION. You can just ignore all that stuff and pick out what 
you need. My scripts are extensively commented, which helps me a lot. I first 
write the comment for the next step to take and then write the code for it. 
Oh, and 80% of these scripts are from NYPHP anyway, so if you find it useful, 
thank the good helpers on this list. The remaining 20% are the comments, hehe.

David

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From nynj.tech at hotmail.com  Tue Jan  1 23:36:34 2008
From: nynj.tech at hotmail.com (chad qian)
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 23:36:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] simple form action
Message-ID: <BLU126-W41A0A5E58A74212C4F5DF7E8520@phx.gbl>


Here is the one PHP page code 
<?php
.....
....
......
?>
<html>
<form action=???? method="post" name=form1>
......
 <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit"></form>
 
When people click "submit", I want to  execute the first php coding part above <html>.
so,form action=what?
 
Thanks!
 
chad
 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_122007
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From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Tue Jan  1 23:42:01 2008
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 23:42:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] simple form action
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-W41A0A5E58A74212C4F5DF7E8520@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-W41A0A5E58A74212C4F5DF7E8520@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <mailman.19.1363003721.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 11:36 PM 1/1/2008, chad qian wrote:
>Here is the one PHP page code
><?php
>.....
>....
>......
>?>
><html>
><form action=???? method="post" name=form1>
>......
>  <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit">
></form>
>
>When people click "submit", I want to  execute the first php coding 
>part above <html>.
>so,form action=what?

You can just leave the action attribute out of the <form> tag and it 
will be submitted to the same script. Make sure you test that the 
form was submitted before trying to process it.

<?php
if (isset($_POST['submit'])) {
//
//  do form processing
//
}
// other code
?>
<html>
<body>
<form method="post">
...
<form>
</body>
</html>

Ken 
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From codeshepherd at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 09:56:13 2008
From: codeshepherd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dee=FEan_Chakravarthy?=)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:56:13 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: MidwestSource??
In-Reply-To: <d0cb92620712311224k20bb6cb3x24f39b435c67aba0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d0cb92620712311224k20bb6cb3x24f39b435c67aba0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477BA60D.6040003@gmail.com>

Thomas O'Neill wrote:
> First off I want to apologize for the blatant solicitation.  I have 
> been actively following this list for about 4 years and have found the 
> discussion on all things web development related an outstanding 
> resource.  The group has great participation and members that often 
> provide excellent advice to the PHP development community.  I hope 
> that I am not out of line seeking some business advice.  I work for a 
> growing web development company in Minneapolis, MN (4+ years 45+ 
> employees) and we are looking to expand our customer base to the east 
> coast.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a company rooted in the 
> Midwest to get in on the action out east?  Does anyone need a partner 
> to supplement their workload?  We are an agile development shop with 
> ~30 programmers that bills ~1000 hours/week. 


Hi Thomas,
   You might want to try assembla.com or other similar sites. 

-- 
Deepan 
http://sudoku-solver.net/



From aw at sap8.com  Wed Jan  2 10:56:12 2008
From: aw at sap8.com (Anthony Wlodarski)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 10:56:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: MidwestSource??
In-Reply-To: <477BA60D.6040003@gmail.com>
References: <d0cb92620712311224k20bb6cb3x24f39b435c67aba0@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BA60D.6040003@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007f01c84d58$003abf50$00b03df0$@com>

Also try the NYPHPJobs mailing list.  Good resource if you got talent and
people want to share the workload with your organization.

Anthony Wlodarski
Shulman Fleming & Partners
646-285-0500 x230
aw at sap8.com

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Dee?an Chakravarthy
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:56 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] OT: MidwestSource??

Thomas O'Neill wrote:
> First off I want to apologize for the blatant solicitation.  I have 
> been actively following this list for about 4 years and have found the 
> discussion on all things web development related an outstanding 
> resource.  The group has great participation and members that often 
> provide excellent advice to the PHP development community.  I hope 
> that I am not out of line seeking some business advice.  I work for a 
> growing web development company in Minneapolis, MN (4+ years 45+ 
> employees) and we are looking to expand our customer base to the east 
> coast.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a company rooted in the 
> Midwest to get in on the action out east?  Does anyone need a partner 
> to supplement their workload?  We are an agile development shop with 
> ~30 programmers that bills ~1000 hours/week. 


Hi Thomas,
   You might want to try assembla.com or other similar sites. 

-- 
Deepan 
http://sudoku-solver.net/

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Wed Jan  2 11:11:30 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 11:11:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
Message-ID: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>

Thought this might be of interest:
http://php.sys-con.com/read/457324.htm

James Anderson writes (in his response to the article): The really 
simple answer is that after the release
of  php 5, php became the better language...


-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 11:56:59 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:56:59 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>

Pure flame-bait and total non-article used to drive traffic to sys-con.com.
Not worth a glance IMO.

- jake

On Jan 2, 2008 11:11 AM, Tim Gales < tgales at tgaconnect.com> wrote:

> Thought this might be of interest:
> http://php.sys-con.com/read/457324.htm
>
> James Anderson writes (in his response to the article): The really
> simple answer is that after the release
> of  php 5, php became the better language...
>
>
> --
>
> T. Gales & Associates
> 'Helping People Connect with Technology'
>
> http://www.tgaconnect.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan  2 12:08:53 2008
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:08:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477BC525.2090203@secdat.com>

Agreed, content-free.  Lots of ads.

Jake McGraw wrote:
> Pure flame-bait and total non-article used to drive traffic to 
> sys-con.com <http://sys-con.com>. Not worth a glance IMO.
>
> - jake
>
> On Jan 2, 2008 11:11 AM, Tim Gales < tgales at tgaconnect.com 
> <mailto:tgales at tgaconnect.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thought this might be of interest:
>     http://php.sys-con.com/read/457324.htm
>
>     James Anderson writes (in his response to the article): The really
>     simple answer is that after the release
>     of  php 5, php became the better language...
>
>
>     -- 
>
>     T. Gales & Associates
>     'Helping People Connect with Technology'
>
>     http://www.tgaconnect.com
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010

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From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Wed Jan  2 12:26:05 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:26:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>

Jake McGraw wrote:
> Pure flame-bait and total non-article 

sorry, I thought the part about Java's
multitudinous specialty  "collection" classes
versus using an 'Array()' type which is
simpler and faster was a valid point --
my mistake.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Jan  2 12:28:49 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:28:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <477BC9D1.8040100@projectskyline.com>

Right on,

I read that and was, woah, when does the article start...looking for a 
link the "page 2 >>"

trash.


Tim Gales wrote:
> Thought this might be of interest:
> http://php.sys-con.com/read/457324.htm
>
> James Anderson writes (in his response to the article): The really 
> simple answer is that after the release
> of  php 5, php became the better language...
>
>


From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 12:37:08 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:37:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>

Tim:

You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array() is
pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was
completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was referring to:

James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the release of
php 5, php became the better language. Just one example -- collections; php
has one all purpose collection type which is an array/hash/stack or queue
depending on how you choose to use it, and, as you can store any object or
another array in the array it handles any type of tree. Java on the other
hand has:- ArrayList, AttributeList, BeanContextSupport,
CopyOnWriteArrayList, CopyOnWriteArraySet, DelayQueue, EnumSet, HashSet,
LinkedHashSet, LinkedList, PriorityQueue, RoleList, RoleUnresolvedList,
Stack, TreeSet, Vector etc. etc. and this is only from the official "
java.util....." there are thousands of other "collection" classes out there.
Nearly of the functionality provided by this mass of classes is available in
php's 'Array()' type. And php does it faster!

- jake

On Jan 2, 2008 12:26 PM, Tim Gales <tgales at tgaconnect.com> wrote:

> Jake McGraw wrote:
> > Pure flame-bait and total non-article
>
> sorry, I thought the part about Java's
> multitudinous specialty  "collection" classes
> versus using an 'Array()' type which is
> simpler and faster was a valid point --
> my mistake.
>
> --
>
> T. Gales & Associates
> 'Helping People Connect with Technology'
>
> http://www.tgaconnect.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From ken at secdat.com  Wed Jan  2 12:40:26 2008
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:40:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477BCC8A.4020201@secdat.com>

Jake McGraw wrote:
> Tim:
>
> You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array() 
> is pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was 
> completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was 
> referring to:
>
> James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the 
> release of php 5, php became the better language. Just one example -- 
> collections; php has one all purpose collection type which is an 
> array/hash/stack or queue depending on how you choose to use it, and, 
> as you can store any object or another array in the array it handles 
> any type of tree. Java on the other hand has:- ArrayList, 
> AttributeList, BeanContextSupport, CopyOnWriteArrayList, 
> CopyOnWriteArraySet, DelayQueue, EnumSet, HashSet, LinkedHashSet, 
> LinkedList, PriorityQueue, RoleList, RoleUnresolvedList, Stack, 
> TreeSet, Vector etc. etc. and this is only from the official 
> "java.util....." there are thousands of other "collection" classes out 
> there. Nearly of the functionality provided by this mass of classes is 
> available in php's 'Array()' type. And php does it faster!

This more or less sums up my entire purpose in using PHP.  And the 
philosophy behind that leads to numerous other features that makes it 
easier.


>
> - jake
>
> On Jan 2, 2008 12:26 PM, Tim Gales <tgales at tgaconnect.com 
> <mailto:tgales at tgaconnect.com>> wrote:
>
>     Jake McGraw wrote:
>     > Pure flame-bait and total non-article
>
>     sorry, I thought the part about Java's
>     multitudinous specialty  "collection" classes
>     versus using an 'Array()' type which is
>     simpler and faster was a valid point --
>     my mistake.
>
>     --
>
>     T. Gales & Associates
>     'Helping People Connect with Technology'
>
>     http://www.tgaconnect.com
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>     <http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk>
>
>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010

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From aw at sap8.com  Wed Jan  2 13:01:06 2008
From: aw at sap8.com (Anthony Wlodarski)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:01:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <00be01c84d69$726a40d0$573ec270$@com>

This article was funny and yet sad...

I thoroughly enjoyed the Ajax world popup that crashed my I.E. when I
clicked on 'close this window'.  When we were evaluating on how to build our
internal apps a big part of the decision came on how we would continue
support on the back end we decided to go against Java.  Working with Java
for web applications is like pulling a toe nail with a pair of pliers, not
fun stuff.  Setting up a prepackaged system in LAMP or using Xxamp depending
on your platform is much easier than getting an environment working for JSP
type pages.  Even compiling Apache/PHP/MySQL from source is easier than
working with Java web technologies.

My .02 on the matter.

Anthony Wlodarski
646-285-0500 x230
aw at sap8.com


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Gales
Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:12 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
instead of Java

Thought this might be of interest:
http://php.sys-con.com/read/457324.htm

James Anderson writes (in his response to the article): The really 
simple answer is that after the release
of  php 5, php became the better language...


-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From ramons at gmx.net  Wed Jan  2 15:44:56 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:44:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <477BF7C8.6070007@gmx.net>

I found this article also a waste of bandwidth. What is even more sad than the 
contents (or the lack thereof) is that the writer couldn't answer the question 
he put out. I started learning Java and got reminded at my dreadful 
experiences with C. Java inherited all the crappy, annoying stuff from C and 
managed to make it even more complicated. PHP is much easier to use and 
understand. There is often a function for pretty much anything and adding a 
library is as easy as removing a semicolon or dropping a file where all the 
others are and adding a line to the ini file.
I started programming on the C64 with BASIC, then learned Logo, then did a bit 
assembler on the 64. Later I did Pascal on the Apple IIe (in high school), 
then did MS-BASIC, then looked at the early stages of Delphi, and did ANSI C 
as well as Assembler on the 8088 at the university. Later I was forced to find 
my way through ObjectPAL after the only developer who knew it quit, then tried 
my luck with VB6 and VB.NET, and took a stab at Java. During all these times I 
loathed programming with every fiber of my being. It was always dumb, 
cumbersome, complicated, difficult to understand, or did not have enough 
features or didn't give access to other resources. I absolutely hate programming.
Then came a course on E-business during my MS degree and I decided to program 
a web app as project. I found PHP and since then I am in constant awe as how 
easy and powerful application development can be. PHP is easy, it offers a 
lot, it just works, and it doesn't drive one nuts with this compiling and 
linking crap like C, doesn't require to write 50 lines of code first to get 
"Hello World" on screen as it is with Java, and doesn't cost hundreds of bucks 
like VS. Back then I was impressed by Delphi, but today I think the GUIs of 
Delphi apps suck and Delphi is becoming irrelevant quickly. Oh, and none can 
really be used easily for web development - unlike PHP.

The kids that pick PHP aren't just cool, they are above all damn smart. Java 
is the language of choice for masochists.

David



From felix.shnir at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 15:53:04 2008
From: felix.shnir at gmail.com (Felix Shnir)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 15:53:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BF7C8.6070007@gmx.net>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com> <477BF7C8.6070007@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <ee3adaa10801021253n3d5d3ce5kf5d16463b5b71268@mail.gmail.com>

Jeez, whats up with all the Java hating today?  First, LUG, now PHP list.
This article is a useless rant and indeed a waste of bandwidth, but the
constant Java sux in this and PHP rules in that conversation is a lot more
annoying simply because it is an irrelevant flame war.

This is a PHP list, lets stick to it.

Felix.


On Jan 2, 2008 3:44 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:

> I found this article also a waste of bandwidth. What is even more sad than
> the
> contents (or the lack thereof) is that the writer couldn't answer the
> question
> he put out. I started learning Java and got reminded at my dreadful
> experiences with C. Java inherited all the crappy, annoying stuff from C
> and
> managed to make it even more complicated. PHP is much easier to use and
> understand. There is often a function for pretty much anything and adding
> a
> library is as easy as removing a semicolon or dropping a file where all
> the
> others are and adding a line to the ini file.
> I started programming on the C64 with BASIC, then learned Logo, then did a
> bit
> assembler on the 64. Later I did Pascal on the Apple IIe (in high school),
> then did MS-BASIC, then looked at the early stages of Delphi, and did ANSI
> C
> as well as Assembler on the 8088 at the university. Later I was forced to
> find
> my way through ObjectPAL after the only developer who knew it quit, then
> tried
> my luck with VB6 and VB.NET, and took a stab at Java. During all these
> times I
> loathed programming with every fiber of my being. It was always dumb,
> cumbersome, complicated, difficult to understand, or did not have enough
> features or didn't give access to other resources. I absolutely hate
> programming.
> Then came a course on E-business during my MS degree and I decided to
> program
> a web app as project. I found PHP and since then I am in constant awe as
> how
> easy and powerful application development can be. PHP is easy, it offers a
> lot, it just works, and it doesn't drive one nuts with this compiling and
> linking crap like C, doesn't require to write 50 lines of code first to
> get
> "Hello World" on screen as it is with Java, and doesn't cost hundreds of
> bucks
> like VS. Back then I was impressed by Delphi, but today I think the GUIs
> of
> Delphi apps suck and Delphi is becoming irrelevant quickly. Oh, and none
> can
> really be used easily for web development - unlike PHP.
>
> The kids that pick PHP aren't just cool, they are above all damn smart.
> Java
> is the language of choice for masochists.
>
> David
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Wed Jan  2 15:59:22 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:59:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <477BFB2A.7070504@beezifies.com>

Tim Gales wrote:
> Thought this might be of interest:
> http://php.sys-con.com/read/457324.htm
>
> James Anderson writes (in his response to the article): The really 
> simple answer is that after the release of  php 5, php became the 
> better language...

I wasn't aware that PHP was the cool language.  I thought the "cool" 
language was Ruby.

Personally, I tend not to be a fan of the "cool" language because it 
means you either pay an arm and a leg for programmers, or you pay to 
train someone on your project so they can charge an arm and a leg for 
other projects.

Java has it's place, I like it for cross platform development, but for a 
website you don't need a cross platform CGI language, you just need a 
language which runs on your server.

I think Java is getting hit on two sides.  On the webside, Ruby is now 
the "cool" langauge that everyone wants to program in so they can charge 
lots of  money, while for graphical apps Flash is becoming the cross 
platform tool of choice.




From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com  Wed Jan  2 16:02:44 2008
From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:02:44 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
Message-ID: <1199307764.12160@coral.he.net>

Next I trust we can look forward to a bracing discussion on why "cool 
kids" use Phillips screwdrivers instead of blowtorches to open their 
computer cases?

-- Kristina

> Tim Gales wrote:
> > Thought this might be of interest:
> > http://php.sys-con.com/read/457324.htm
> >
> > James Anderson writes (in his response to the article): The really 
> > simple answer is that after the release of  php 5, php became the 
> > better language...
> 
> I wasn't aware that PHP was the cool language.  I thought the "cool" 
> language was Ruby.
> 
> Personally, I tend not to be a fan of the "cool" language because it 
> means you either pay an arm and a leg for programmers, or you pay to 
> train someone on your project so they can charge an arm and a leg 
for 
> other projects.
> 
> Java has it's place, I like it for cross platform development, but 
for a 
> website you don't need a cross platform CGI language, you just need 
a 
> language which runs on your server.
> 
> I think Java is getting hit on two sides.  On the webside, Ruby is 
now 
> the "cool" langauge that everyone wants to program in so they can 
charge 
> lots of  money, while for graphical apps Flash is becoming the cross 
> platform tool of choice.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 



From gypsyfella at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 16:09:41 2008
From: gypsyfella at gmail.com (Erik Baker)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:09:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Time Card / Scheduling Open Source Package
Message-ID: <2dbcc80f0801021309p4500838akdaf3a7fb745ede97@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,

I need to create a low-level time card & scheduling application.  It will
track contract employee hours, produce reports & time cards, and allow
scheduling of contract employees.  This is for contract employees who work
in the entertainment field, so forms for director sign-off will be needed &
some procedure built into the access of information and generation of
reports.  Does anyone know if parts of this already exist in Open Source
projects?  I would love not to have to start from scratch on this one.


Erik
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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Wed Jan  2 16:25:19 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:25:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build	websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <1199307764.12160@coral.he.net>
References: <1199307764.12160@coral.he.net>
Message-ID: <477C013F.6040809@beezifies.com>

So that is what I was doing wrong!  No wonder the computer service reps 
keep telling me I voided my warranty when I added a hard drive to the 
system.

Kristina Anderson wrote:
> Next I trust we can look forward to a bracing discussion on why "cool 
> kids" use Phillips screwdrivers instead of blowtorches to open their 
> computer cases?
>
> -- Kristina
>
>   



From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 16:38:22 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:38:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Time Card / Scheduling Open Source Package
In-Reply-To: <2dbcc80f0801021309p4500838akdaf3a7fb745ede97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2dbcc80f0801021309p4500838akdaf3a7fb745ede97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801021338y24a7d2f3l58f151412a15c82d@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds pretty specific, how do you plan on utilizing PHP? Certainly not for
interfacing with the card reading hardware, perhaps providing a web based
system for administrators? As far as I know, the client side software should
be provided with whatever hardware has been purchased (card readers, etc)...
The server side software should be available via IBM or some other
systems/HR company.

- jake

On Jan 2, 2008 4:09 PM, Erik Baker <gypsyfella at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I need to create a low-level time card & scheduling application.  It will
> track contract employee hours, produce reports & time cards, and allow
> scheduling of contract employees.  This is for contract employees who work
> in the entertainment field, so forms for director sign-off will be needed &
> some procedure built into the access of information and generation of
> reports.  Does anyone know if parts of this already exist in Open Source
> projects?  I would love not to have to start from scratch on this one.
>
>
> Erik
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From JJainschigg at cmp.com  Wed Jan  2 17:03:57 2008
From: JJainschigg at cmp.com (JJainschigg at cmp.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 17:03:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to
	build	websites	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477C013F.6040809@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <OFBF8AB1BB.90608FCD-ON852573C4.00792F62-852573C4.00793640@cmp.com>

Neither - cool kids use Torx wrenches. (grin)

John Jainschigg
Director, Online Technology and New Business, Software Group
Executive Director, CMP Metaverse
CMP Technology, LLC
600 Community Drive
Manhasset, New York 11030
Instant Message to:
    AIM: jjainschigg
    MSN: jjainschigg at cmp.com
    Skype: jjainschigg at cmp.com
Voice call to:
    try first: 718-472-0788
    try second: 917-405-3116
    try third: 516-562-5617
email: jjainschigg at cmp.com
www.ddj.com
www.life20.net
In Second Life --
Avatar Name: John Zhaoying
Island: Dr Dobbs Island
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Dr%20Dobbs%20Island/89/115/22

Fax: 516-467-8817
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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Wed Jan  2 17:15:17 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:15:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Time Card / Scheduling Open Source Package
In-Reply-To: <2dbcc80f0801021309p4500838akdaf3a7fb745ede97@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2dbcc80f0801021309p4500838akdaf3a7fb745ede97@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477C0CF5.6050506@beezifies.com>

Just about any project management software, such as BaseCamp, 
ActiveCollab, or Project Pier has time tracking abilities.

Erik Baker wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I need to create a low-level time card & scheduling application.  It 
> will track contract employee hours, produce reports & time cards, and 
> allow scheduling of contract employees.  This is for contract 
> employees who work in the entertainment field, so forms for director 
> sign-off will be needed & some procedure built into the access of 
> information and generation of reports.  Does anyone know if parts of 
> this already exist in Open Source projects?  I would love not to have 
> to start from scratch on this one.
>
>
> Erik
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From elharo at metalab.unc.edu  Wed Jan  2 18:09:26 2008
From: elharo at metalab.unc.edu (Elliotte Rusty Harold)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 18:09:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>

Jake McGraw wrote:
> Tim:
> 
> You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array() is 
> pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was 
> completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was referring 
> to:
> 
> James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the release 
> of php 5, php became the better language. 

Oh really? From http://zestyping.livejournal.com/124503.html


% cat equality.php
<?php

$a = 0;
$b = "eggs";
$c = "spam";

print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";

?>

% php equality.php
a == b
b != c
a == c
a == d
b != d
c != d

(Of course, starting in version 5, Java began to mess up simple 
Aristotelian logic too, but not quite this badly.)


-- 
Elliotte Rusty Harold  elharo at metalab.unc.edu
Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published!
http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/


From michael.southwell at nyphp.com  Wed Jan  2 19:22:30 2008
From: michael.southwell at nyphp.com (Michael Southwell)
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:22:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> Jake McGraw wrote:
>> Tim:
>>
>> You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array() 
>> is pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was 
>> completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was 
>> referring to:
>>
>> James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the 
>> release of php 5, php became the better language. 
> 
> Oh really? From http://zestyping.livejournal.com/124503.html
> 
> 
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
> 
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
> 
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> 
> ?>
> 
> % php equality.php
> a == b
> b != c
> a == c
> a == d
> b != d
> c != d
> 
> (Of course, starting in version 5, Java began to mess up simple 
> Aristotelian logic too, but not quite this badly.)

ah, no, these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an integer, $b 
and $c are strings, and $d is unset. $b and $c when converted to 
integers for the purpose of comparison in #1 and #3 turn into 0 (zero) 
so the comparisons are true. #2 compares two different strings and so is 
false. #4 compares 0 to the integer of unset and so is true. #5 and #6 
compare strings to the string of unset and so are false.
> 
> 


-- 
=================
Michael Southwell
Vice President, Education
NYPHP TRAINING:  http://nyphp.com/Training/Indepth


From mailinglists at caseysoftware.com  Wed Jan  2 22:34:42 2008
From: mailinglists at caseysoftware.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:34:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Time Card / Scheduling Open Source Package
In-Reply-To: <477C0CF5.6050506@beezifies.com>
References: <2dbcc80f0801021309p4500838akdaf3a7fb745ede97@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C0CF5.6050506@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <fd219f0f0801021934m1bb2f54awee1de73dbfa82c5b@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 2, 2008 5:15 PM, Gary Mort <bz-gmort at beezifies.com> wrote:
> Just about any project management software, such as BaseCamp,
> ActiveCollab, or Project Pier has time tracking abilities.

A bit biased on this one... former dotProject contributor and one of
the founders of the new fork: web2project ( http://web2project.net/ ).

Simply tracking time is easy.  You can actually do that with Notepad
using the LOG feature.  It's what you do with it that's important.
Scheduling and resource planning is one good step.  Comparing against
estimates is even better.  Tracking estimates over time and learning
people's biases for better estimating is the best of all.  ;)

dotProject and web2project do the first couple points.  I'm working on
a useful Estimation module now to automate what I've been doing by
hand.

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


From arzala at gmail.com  Wed Jan  2 22:42:11 2008
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:12:11 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <200801030912.11259.arzala@gmail.com>

On Thursday 03 Jan 2008 04:39:26 Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> Jake McGraw wrote:
> > Tim:
> >
> > You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array() is
> > pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was
> > completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was referring
> > to:
> >
> > James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the release
> > of php 5, php became the better language.
>
> Oh really? From http://zestyping.livejournal.com/124503.html
>
>
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
>
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
>
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
>
> ?>
>
> % php equality.php
> a == b
> b != c
> a == c
> a == d
> b != d
> c != d
>
> (Of course, starting in version 5, Java began to mess up simple
> Aristotelian logic too, but not quite this badly.)

Seriously PHP is not for cool kids. You need to grow a bit to learn and 
understand it properly. I think PHP has chosen *different* rules to evaluate 
expressions and since those rules are bit different than other regular  
programming/scripting languages it is obvious that we can see this kind of 
opposition.


From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Thu Jan  3 05:14:10 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:14:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <477CB572.5040200@beezifies.com>

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
>
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
>
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> ?>
>
I don't see this as a problem, basically the issue being raised is:
PHP does not have strong typing, this 0, NULL, and false are all 
equivalent(add a $d=false; to the definitions and everything still comes 
out with the same result).

However, knowing that these 3 values are considered the same, you can 
replace 2 equal signs with 3, ===, and get the output your expecting.


From aw at sap8.com  Thu Jan  3 09:14:21 2008
From: aw at sap8.com (Anthony Wlodarski)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:14:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477CB572.5040200@beezifies.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
	<477CB572.5040200@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>

Zesty Ping never learned === apparently.  This one's for you Zesty:

http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison.php

"===" introduced type facing in php4 so it is a moot point or just poor reading skills on some developers parts if they missed this essential comparison operator...

Anthony Wlodarski
646-285-0500 x230
aw at sap8.com

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Gary Mort
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:14 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites instead of Java

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
>
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
>
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> ?>
>
I don't see this as a problem, basically the issue being raised is:
PHP does not have strong typing, this 0, NULL, and false are all 
equivalent(add a $d=false; to the definitions and everything still comes 
out with the same result).

However, knowing that these 3 values are considered the same, you can 
replace 2 equal signs with 3, ===, and get the output your expecting.
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 09:29:47 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:29:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu> <477CB572.5040200@beezifies.com>
	<002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801030629u6287ed73h1bcb5d640a9bc131@mail.gmail.com>

I believe it was my Uncle Ben who once said "With great power comes great
responsibility." PHP does things in a manner different than C or Java or
Python or etc etc etc (that is why it is called PHP). There are features
that some programmers believe are shortcomings, there are shortcomings that
some programmers believe are features. Know the language and its quirks and
you'll never get bitten, program with some "responsibility".

- jake

On Jan 3, 2008 9:14 AM, Anthony Wlodarski <aw at sap8.com> wrote:

> Zesty Ping never learned === apparently.  This one's for you Zesty:
>
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison.php
>
> "===" introduced type facing in php4 so it is a moot point or just poor
> reading skills on some developers parts if they missed this essential
> comparison operator...
>
> Anthony Wlodarski
> 646-285-0500 x230
> aw at sap8.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Gary Mort
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:14 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
> instead of Java
>
> Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> > % cat equality.php
> > <?php
> >
> > $a = 0;
> > $b = "eggs";
> > $c = "spam";
> >
> > print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> > print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> > print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> > print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> > print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> > print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> > ?>
> >
> I don't see this as a problem, basically the issue being raised is:
> PHP does not have strong typing, this 0, NULL, and false are all
> equivalent(add a $d=false; to the definitions and everything still comes
> out with the same result).
>
> However, knowing that these 3 values are considered the same, you can
> replace 2 equal signs with 3, ===, and get the output your expecting.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Thu Jan  3 10:43:33 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:43:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build	websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <00be01c84d69$726a40d0$573ec270$@com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<00be01c84d69$726a40d0$573ec270$@com>
Message-ID: <477D02A5.7080106@tgaconnect.com>

Anthony Wlodarski wrote:
> This article was funny and yet sad...
> 
Yes me too -- but for different reasons.
I thought it was extremely immature to say
"PHP is a better language".

It is like trying to argue that a Phillips
head screwdriver is  a better screwdriver
(as was mentioned) without taking in to
account what type of screws are being used.

I thought if I put that phrase about being
a better language in the post everyone would
know there might be a good portion of ill-informed
(and childish) opinions in the article.

Judging from some responses, that was more
than a slight miscalculation on my part --
and none too smart.

So let me say, in the words of the inimitable 'agent 86',
"Sorry about that, Chief"

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From jeff at newnewmedia.com  Thu Jan  3 10:54:34 2008
From: jeff at newnewmedia.com (Jeff Loiselle)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:54:34 -0400
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Editing a PDF
Message-ID: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>

Hello,

Can anyone recommend a package they've used (written in PHP, no  
extensions) to open a PDF, add a simple text header line, and save it?

Regards,
jeff


From afischer at email.smith.edu  Thu Jan  3 11:01:58 2008
From: afischer at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:01:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Editing a PDF
In-Reply-To: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
References: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
Message-ID: <89A5CDDC-70C4-406B-B614-C7DA5207EAF9@email.smith.edu>

I've had great success with this one:
http://www.fpdf.org/


On Jan 3, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Jeff Loiselle wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Can anyone recommend a package they've used (written in PHP, no  
> extensions) to open a PDF, add a simple text header line, and save it?
>
> Regards,
> jeff


From dlmerryweather at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 11:06:21 2008
From: dlmerryweather at gmail.com (David Merryweather)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 10:06:21 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Editing a PDF
In-Reply-To: <89A5CDDC-70C4-406B-B614-C7DA5207EAF9@email.smith.edu>
References: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
	<89A5CDDC-70C4-406B-B614-C7DA5207EAF9@email.smith.edu>
Message-ID: <793b2bec0801030806u15e92019we45df9f93be8b403@mail.gmail.com>

To open an existing PDF, you will need the FPDI library too.

http://www.setasign.de/products/pdf-php-solutions/fpdi/



On Jan 3, 2008 10:01 AM, Aaron Fischer <afischer at email.smith.edu> wrote:

> I've had great success with this one:
> http://www.fpdf.org/
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2008, at 10:54 AM, Jeff Loiselle wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a package they've used (written in PHP, no
> > extensions) to open a PDF, add a simple text header line, and save it?
> >
> > Regards,
> > jeff
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
David Merryweather
Vice President of Information Technologies
Creative Education Institute, Inc.
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From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 11:15:48 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:15:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801030629u6287ed73h1bcb5d640a9bc131@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu> <477CB572.5040200@beezifies.com>
	<002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>
	<e065b8610801030629u6287ed73h1bcb5d640a9bc131@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801030815m1d2083aer6ee15869f696e407@mail.gmail.com>

Rusty has a perfectly valid point, but comparing java and php in this
regard is nonsensical because java is typed, php is not.  I think a
more relevant comparison is comparing the same code in other non-typed
languages.

JAVASCRIPT:
var a = 0;
var b = "eggs";
var c = "spam";
var d = null;
var e = [];
var f = "0";

console.log( (a == b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n");
console.log( (b == c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n");
console.log( (a == c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n");
console.log( (a == d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n");
console.log( (b == d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n");
console.log( (c == d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n");
console.log( !!e ? "empty arrays are true \n" : "empty arrays are false \n");
console.log( (a == f) ? "a == f\n" : "a != f\n");

Result:
a != b
b != c
a != c
a != d
b != d
c != d
empty arrays are true
a == f

PYTHON:
a = 0
b = "eggs"
c = "spam"
d = None
e = []
f = "0"

print( (a == b) and "a == b" or "a != b")
print( (b == c) and "b == c" or "b != c")
print( (a == c) and "a == c" or "a != c")
print( (a == d) and "a == d" or "a != d")
print( (b == d) and "b == d" or "b != d")
print( (c == d) and "c == d" or "c != d")
print( e and "empty arrays are true" or "empty arrays are false")
print( (a == f) and "a == f" or "a != f")

Result:
a != b
b != c
a != c
a != d
b != d
c != d
empty arrays are false
a != f

Note that javascript and python fail if "d" is not defined.  (PHP can
be configured to do the same if that is what you want).  I won't
comment on which I think is best, but I know it sucks having to
remember the quirks of each language for something as simple as "==".

Regards,
John Campbell


From tedd at sperling.com  Thu Jan  3 12:09:28 2008
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:09:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Editing a PDF
In-Reply-To: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
References: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
Message-ID: <p06240808c3a2c65296ce@[192.168.1.102]>

At 11:54 AM -0400 1/3/08, Jeff Loiselle wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Can anyone recommend a package they've used (written in PHP, no 
>extensions) to open a PDF, add a simple text header line, and save 
>it?
>
>Regards,
>jeff

Arrggg, that's going to be difficult. The innards of pdf files are not trivial.

You can use things like: http://www.fpdf.org/ to write your own, like this:

http://webbytedd.com/bb/pdf/

But to take an existing PDF file and open it up and change something 
is much more complicated than you might think, or so I've found.

If anyone disagrees, please provide me with an example to review.

Sorry,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From ioplex at gmail.com  Thu Jan  3 12:12:30 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 12:12:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Editing a PDF
In-Reply-To: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
References: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801030912h64bcc119g923f3a2ba4acbad2@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/3/08, Jeff Loiselle <jeff at newnewmedia.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can anyone recommend a package they've used (written in PHP, no
> extensions) to open a PDF, add a simple text header line, and save it?

I have not tried this myself but the Zend_Pdf component of Zend
Framework can probably do what you want:

  http://framework.zend.com/manual/en/zend.pdf.html

Note that even though ZF looks like you would have to commit to a
whole new set of rules, there are actually little or no dependencies
between components.

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From afischer at email.smith.edu  Thu Jan  3 14:07:52 2008
From: afischer at email.smith.edu (Aaron Fischer)
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:07:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Editing a PDF
In-Reply-To: <p06240808c3a2c65296ce@[192.168.1.102]>
References: <9562C2D2-D264-4C6D-8333-EC61F7806EA4@newnewmedia.com>
	<p06240808c3a2c65296ce@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <0D40480B-E063-4B85-BB88-D59F6DB1F496@email.smith.edu>

I use FPDF and FPDI to import existing PDFs and modify them.  However,  
I agree it's probably not in the sense that you are referring to them  
Tedd.  Basically it brings the PDF in as a template and then you can  
write to it, images or text for example.

Everything I have done has involved writing text on an imported PDF  
template.  Works great for that.  Haven't tried to do anything like  
edit existing text, etc.  Not sure if or how that would work with  
those packages.  I too found that PDF appeared to be fairly  
complicated in terms of modifying and working with those files.  The  
FPDF/FPDI packages allowed me to accomplish what I needed so I haven't  
had to go deeper.

-A

On Jan 3, 2008, at 12:09 PM, tedd wrote:

> At 11:54 AM -0400 1/3/08, Jeff Loiselle wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a package they've used (written in PHP, no  
>> extensions) to open a PDF, add a simple text header line, and save  
>> it?
>>
>> Regards,
>> jeff
>
> Arrggg, that's going to be difficult. The innards of pdf files are  
> not trivial.
>
> You can use things like: http://www.fpdf.org/ to write your own,  
> like this:
>
> http://webbytedd.com/bb/pdf/
>
> But to take an existing PDF file and open it up and change something  
> is much more complicated than you might think, or so I've found.
>
> If anyone disagrees, please provide me with an example to review.
>
> Sorry,
>
> tedd
> -- 
> -------
> http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jonathanw at amoeba.co.za  Fri Jan  4 06:18:44 2008
From: jonathanw at amoeba.co.za (Jonathan Wagener)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:18:44 +0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHPThumb -- how does it work??
In-Reply-To: <EA0F84F436BC4498A2E197968442A6CE@ABS.Office>
References: <EA0F84F436BC4498A2E197968442A6CE@ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A986@amoeba1.ABS.Office>


Hi, I would like to know how I can make phpthumb work, I don't really
understand how it works. How do I make it create thumbnails?

Kind regards,

Jonathan Wagener
     Web Developer / Architect
     Amoeba Business Solutions
     Cell:    +27 72 928 0513
     Office: +27 21 785 1424
     Web:    www.amoeba.co.za
     Blog:   www.espresso-online.info 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
Sent: 03 January 2008 18:01
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 6

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"Re: Contents of talk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites	instead
      of Java (Elliotte Rusty Harold)
   2. Re: Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites	instead
      of Java (Michael Southwell)
   3. Re: Time Card / Scheduling Open Source Package (Keith Casey)
   4. Re: Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites	instead
      of Java (Anirudh Zala)
   5. Re: Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites	instead
      of Java (Gary Mort)
   6. RE: Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build	websites
instead
      of Java (Anthony Wlodarski)
   7. Re: Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites	instead
      of Java (Jake McGraw)
   8. Re: Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build	websites
instead
      of Java (Tim Gales)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 18:09:26 -0500
From: Elliotte Rusty Harold <elharo at metalab.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <477C19A6.9020109 at metalab.unc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Jake McGraw wrote:
> Tim:
> 
> You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array() 
> is pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was 
> completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was 
> referring
> to:
> 
> James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the 
> release of php 5, php became the better language.

Oh really? From http://zestyping.livejournal.com/124503.html


% cat equality.php
<?php

$a = 0;
$b = "eggs";
$c = "spam";

print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n"; print ($b == $c) ? "b ==
c\n" : "b != c\n"; print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n"; print ($a
== $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n"; print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b !=
d\n"; print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";

?>

% php equality.php
a == b
b != c
a == c
a == d
b != d
c != d

(Of course, starting in version 5, Java began to mess up simple
Aristotelian logic too, but not quite this badly.)


-- 
Elliotte Rusty Harold  elharo at metalab.unc.edu
Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published!
http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 19:22:30 -0500
From: Michael Southwell <michael.southwell at nyphp.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <477C2AC6.2060203 at nyphp.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> Jake McGraw wrote:
>> Tim:
>>
>> You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array() 
>> is pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was

>> completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was 
>> referring to:
>>
>> James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the 
>> release of php 5, php became the better language. 
> 
> Oh really? From http://zestyping.livejournal.com/124503.html
> 
> 
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
> 
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
> 
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> 
> ?>
> 
> % php equality.php
> a == b
> b != c
> a == c
> a == d
> b != d
> c != d
> 
> (Of course, starting in version 5, Java began to mess up simple 
> Aristotelian logic too, but not quite this badly.)

ah, no, these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an integer, $b

and $c are strings, and $d is unset. $b and $c when converted to 
integers for the purpose of comparison in #1 and #3 turn into 0 (zero) 
so the comparisons are true. #2 compares two different strings and so is

false. #4 compares 0 to the integer of unset and so is true. #5 and #6 
compare strings to the string of unset and so are false.
> 
> 


-- 
=================
Michael Southwell
Vice President, Education
NYPHP TRAINING:  http://nyphp.com/Training/Indepth


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 22:34:42 -0500
From: "Keith Casey" <mailinglists at caseysoftware.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Time Card / Scheduling Open Source Package
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID:
	<fd219f0f0801021934m1bb2f54awee1de73dbfa82c5b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Jan 2, 2008 5:15 PM, Gary Mort <bz-gmort at beezifies.com> wrote:
> Just about any project management software, such as BaseCamp,
> ActiveCollab, or Project Pier has time tracking abilities.

A bit biased on this one... former dotProject contributor and one of
the founders of the new fork: web2project ( http://web2project.net/ ).

Simply tracking time is easy.  You can actually do that with Notepad
using the LOG feature.  It's what you do with it that's important.
Scheduling and resource planning is one good step.  Comparing against
estimates is even better.  Tracking estimates over time and learning
people's biases for better estimating is the best of all.  ;)

dotProject and web2project do the first couple points.  I'm working on
a useful Estimation module now to automate what I've been doing by
hand.

kc

-- 
D. Keith Casey Jr.
CEO, CaseySoftware, LLC
http://CaseySoftware.com


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:12:11 +0530
From: Anirudh Zala <arzala at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <200801030912.11259.arzala at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"

On Thursday 03 Jan 2008 04:39:26 Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> Jake McGraw wrote:
> > Tim:
> >
> > You're not to fault, and the point about Java collections Vs array()
is
> > pretty good, unfortunately, I never made it that far because I was
> > completely turned off by the "article", the exact text Tim was
referring
> > to:
> >
> > James Anderson wrote: The really simple answer is that after the
release
> > of php 5, php became the better language.
>
> Oh really? From http://zestyping.livejournal.com/124503.html
>
>
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
>
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
>
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
>
> ?>
>
> % php equality.php
> a == b
> b != c
> a == c
> a == d
> b != d
> c != d
>
> (Of course, starting in version 5, Java began to mess up simple
> Aristotelian logic too, but not quite this badly.)

Seriously PHP is not for cool kids. You need to grow a bit to learn and 
understand it properly. I think PHP has chosen *different* rules to
evaluate 
expressions and since those rules are bit different than other regular  
programming/scripting languages it is obvious that we can see this kind
of 
opposition.


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 05:14:10 -0500
From: Gary Mort <bz-gmort at beezifies.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <477CB572.5040200 at beezifies.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
>
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
>
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> ?>
>
I don't see this as a problem, basically the issue being raised is:
PHP does not have strong typing, this 0, NULL, and false are all 
equivalent(add a $d=false; to the definitions and everything still comes

out with the same result).

However, knowing that these 3 values are considered the same, you can 
replace 2 equal signs with 3, ===, and get the output your expecting.


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:14:21 -0500
From: "Anthony Wlodarski" <aw at sap8.com>
Subject: RE: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
To: "'NYPHP Talk'" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="UTF-8"

Zesty Ping never learned === apparently.  This one's for you Zesty:

http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison.php

"===" introduced type facing in php4 so it is a moot point or just poor
reading skills on some developers parts if they missed this essential
comparison operator...

Anthony Wlodarski
646-285-0500 x230
aw at sap8.com

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Gary Mort
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:14 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
websites instead of Java

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> % cat equality.php
> <?php
>
> $a = 0;
> $b = "eggs";
> $c = "spam";
>
> print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> ?>
>
I don't see this as a problem, basically the issue being raised is:
PHP does not have strong typing, this 0, NULL, and false are all 
equivalent(add a $d=false; to the definitions and everything still comes

out with the same result).

However, knowing that these 3 values are considered the same, you can 
replace 2 equal signs with 3, ===, and get the output your expecting.
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:29:47 -0500
From: "Jake McGraw" <jmcgraw1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID:
	<e065b8610801030629u6287ed73h1bcb5d640a9bc131 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

I believe it was my Uncle Ben who once said "With great power comes
great
responsibility." PHP does things in a manner different than C or Java or
Python or etc etc etc (that is why it is called PHP). There are features
that some programmers believe are shortcomings, there are shortcomings
that
some programmers believe are features. Know the language and its quirks
and
you'll never get bitten, program with some "responsibility".

- jake

On Jan 3, 2008 9:14 AM, Anthony Wlodarski <aw at sap8.com> wrote:

> Zesty Ping never learned === apparently.  This one's for you Zesty:
>
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison.php
>
> "===" introduced type facing in php4 so it is a moot point or just
poor
> reading skills on some developers parts if they missed this essential
> comparison operator...
>
> Anthony Wlodarski
> 646-285-0500 x230
> aw at sap8.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org
[mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of Gary Mort
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:14 AM
> To: NYPHP Talk
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
websites
> instead of Java
>
> Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> > % cat equality.php
> > <?php
> >
> > $a = 0;
> > $b = "eggs";
> > $c = "spam";
> >
> > print ($a == $b) ? "a == b\n" : "a != b\n";
> > print ($b == $c) ? "b == c\n" : "b != c\n";
> > print ($a == $c) ? "a == c\n" : "a != c\n";
> > print ($a == $d) ? "a == d\n" : "a != d\n";
> > print ($b == $d) ? "b == d\n" : "b != d\n";
> > print ($c == $d) ? "c == d\n" : "c != d\n";
> > ?>
> >
> I don't see this as a problem, basically the issue being raised is:
> PHP does not have strong typing, this 0, NULL, and false are all
> equivalent(add a $d=false; to the definitions and everything still
comes
> out with the same result).
>
> However, knowing that these 3 values are considered the same, you can
> replace 2 equal signs with 3, ===, and get the output your expecting.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:43:33 -0500
From: Tim Gales <tgales at tgaconnect.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <477D02A5.7080106 at tgaconnect.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Anthony Wlodarski wrote:
> This article was funny and yet sad...
> 
Yes me too -- but for different reasons.
I thought it was extremely immature to say
"PHP is a better language".

It is like trying to argue that a Phillips
head screwdriver is  a better screwdriver
(as was mentioned) without taking in to
account what type of screws are being used.

I thought if I put that phrase about being
a better language in the post everyone would
know there might be a good portion of ill-informed
(and childish) opinions in the article.

Judging from some responses, that was more
than a slight miscalculation on my part --
and none too smart.

So let me say, in the words of the inimitable 'agent 86',
"Sorry about that, Chief"

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nyphp.org
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

End of talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 6
***********************************




From ramons at gmx.net  Fri Jan  4 07:01:09 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:01:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHPThumb -- how does it work??
In-Reply-To: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A986@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
References: <EA0F84F436BC4498A2E197968442A6CE@ABS.Office>
	<E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A986@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <477E2005.7030801@gmx.net>

Jonathan Wagener wrote:
> Hi, I would like to know how I can make phpthumb work, I don't really
> understand how it works. How do I make it create thumbnails?
> 

Hi!

I can't answer your question, but I know about an alternative. You can use 
exif to read out the thumbnail from jpegs and then display that. The thumbnail 
is stored as a string, but PHP has functions for that. I put this together 
with a lot of help from the smart people from NYPHP.

This is the piece of code that displays the thumbnail
       // Show thumbnail
       $exifthumbnail = exif_thumbnail($totalpath, $exifwidth, $exifheight, 
$exiftype);
       if ($exifthumbnail !== FALSE) {
             echo "<tr><td>Thumbnail image</td><td><img class=\"centerborder\" ".
                  "src=\"tn.php?degrees=".$rotate."&f=".$totalpath."\">";
             echo "</td></tr>\n";
       } else {
             echo "<tr><td>Thumbnail image</td><td>No thumbnail 
available!</td></tr>\n";
       }

And that is piece of code that makes the thumbnail (reference above as tn.php):
<?php
// =============================================================================
// This script is a helper script to generate a thumbnail image from Exif data
// =============================================================================

if ($_GET['degrees'] == 0) {
    $image = exif_thumbnail($_GET['f'], $width, $height, $type);
    header('Content-type: ' .image_type_to_mime_type($type));
    echo $image;
} else {
    $image = exif_thumbnail($_GET['f'], $width, $height, $type);
    $realimage = imagecreatefromstring($image);
    $rotimage = imagerotate($realimage, $_GET['degrees'], 0);
    header('Content-type: ' .image_type_to_mime_type($type));
    imagejpeg($rotimage);
    // echo $rotimage;
}
?>


$totalpath is the path to the jped image, $degrees is the amount of degrees 
the thumbnail needs to be rotated (the same as the image, I specify the angle 
on image insert/edit, also some cameras have a sensor that stores it in the 
exif info), the $exif.... values are straight from the thumbnail info out of 
the exif header. I display all exif info in a table and show the thumbnail in 
the table cell centered with a border (see class for img tag). The really 
weird thing with this is that the img tag src value is a link to the tn.php 
script. Also a nice example where GET comes to the rescue where POST would be 
awfully complicated.

HTH,

	David


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Fri Jan  4 10:44:39 2008
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:44:39 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list
Message-ID: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>

I'm looking for something similar to the lists/forums at mysql.com, in 
which forum messages are copied to the list, and list messages are 
copied to the forums.  Anyone here know how they do that, or have clues 
on how it could be done?

I'm helping out with a small community site currently running Joomla 
with Simple Machines Forum.  Almost all the site usage is in the forums, 
but since it's a small community traffic is rather low (about 150 
posts/month).  There's been a suggestion that since some people prefer 
forums over email lists, and vice verse, we might be able to improve the 
conversation by allowing people to choose either format and still be 
kept in the mix.

An alternative solution would be a Joomla or SMF plugin that would allow 
people to subscribe to the whole forum and get all posts by email.  Even 
if they had to sign onto the forums to respond, they would at least be 
kept informed of the discussion just by checking email.

Anyone have some leads on such a scheme?  (Googling for keywords like 
forum and list has turned up nothing useful.)

Thanks,
Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)



From phplists at jellyandcustard.com  Fri Jan  4 10:51:17 2008
From: phplists at jellyandcustard.com (Khalid Hanif)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 15:51:17 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list
In-Reply-To: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <F97FB040-0208-4E14-AAC8-FCEABC170822@jellyandcustard.com>

Hi Allen,

FUDForum ( http://fudforum.org/features.php ) has NNTP & Mailing List  
integration. It's written by Ilia A, one of the PHP Core developers,  
and has all the features you'd expect from a forum.

Regards,
Khalid

On 4 Jan 2008, at 15:44, Allen Shaw wrote:

> I'm looking for something similar to the lists/forums at mysql.com,  
> in which forum messages are copied to the list, and list messages  
> are copied to the forums.  Anyone here know how they do that, or  
> have clues on how it could be done?
>
> I'm helping out with a small community site currently running  
> Joomla with Simple Machines Forum.  Almost all the site usage is in  
> the forums, but since it's a small community traffic is rather low  
> (about 150 posts/month).  There's been a suggestion that since some  
> people prefer forums over email lists, and vice verse, we might be  
> able to improve the conversation by allowing people to choose  
> either format and still be kept in the mix.
>
> An alternative solution would be a Joomla or SMF plugin that would  
> allow people to subscribe to the whole forum and get all posts by  
> email.  Even if they had to sign onto the forums to respond, they  
> would at least be kept informed of the discussion just by checking  
> email.
>
> Anyone have some leads on such a scheme?  (Googling for keywords  
> like forum and list has turned up nothing useful.)
>
> Thanks,
> Allen
>
> -- 
> Allen Shaw
> slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Fri Jan  4 11:10:06 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:10:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list
In-Reply-To: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>

Allen Shaw wrote:
> I'm looking for something similar to the lists/forums at mysql.com, in 
> which forum messages are copied to the list, and list messages are 
> copied to the forums.  Anyone here know how they do that, or have 
> clues on how it could be done?
>
> I'm helping out with a small community site currently running Joomla 
> with Simple Machines Forum.  Almost all the site usage is in the 
> forums, but since it's a small community traffic is rather low (about 
> 150 posts/month).  There's been a suggestion that since some people 
> prefer forums over email lists, and vice verse, we might be able to 
> improve the conversation by allowing people to choose either format 
> and still be kept in the mix.
>
>
FUDforum - you can subscribe forums to email lists and crosspost between 
the two.

It has a simple API for logon, so integration with Joomla should be 
fairly simple.



From randalrust at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 12:19:49 2008
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:19:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] POSTing with HTTP and PHP
Message-ID: <a9caffe50801040919j30c6cac6kc6d7367074e66f0f@mail.gmail.com>

I've got a strange project that I'm working on for a school district.
Apparently their CGI email program likes to add additional line breaks
before processing the body of the email. It has something to do with
the user having to indicate line breaks with a ^ symbol.

Rather than just bore everyone with the details, I'll just ask my question.

Can I send data via HTTP POST with the header() function?

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Fri Jan  4 12:27:50 2008
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:27:50 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org> <477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>

Gary Mort wrote:
> FUDforum - you can subscribe forums to email lists and crosspost 
> between the two.
>
> It has a simple API for logon, so integration with Joomla should be 
> fairly simple. 
Great, thanks.  Any leads on an existing Joomla or SMF plugin that would 
facilitate easy email subscription to all messages in a forum?

- A.


-- 
Allen Shaw
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)



From rahmin at insite-out.com  Fri Jan  4 12:51:51 2008
From: rahmin at insite-out.com (Rahmin Pavlovic)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:51:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] POSTing with HTTP and PHP
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50801040919j30c6cac6kc6d7367074e66f0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3A3DC67.57183%rahmin@insite-out.com>


Randal Rust wrote:

> Can I send data via HTTP POST with the header() function?

You'll have to set a variety of headers. Depending on your app, this can
become burdensome.  You might want to look into something like:
http://pear.php.net/package/HTTP_Request




From rahmin at insite-out.com  Fri Jan  4 12:55:42 2008
From: rahmin at insite-out.com (Rahmin Pavlovic)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 12:55:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] XML to JSON?
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50801040919j30c6cac6kc6d7367074e66f0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3A3DD4E.5718A%rahmin@insite-out.com>

Does anyone know of a clean way to covert XML directly to JSON?

I'm currently using SimpleXMLElement to convert the tree to JSON, so I'm
wondering if I can or if its even worth eliminating the middle-man.




From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 12:57:23 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:57:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] POSTing with HTTP and PHP
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50801040919j30c6cac6kc6d7367074e66f0f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50801040919j30c6cac6kc6d7367074e66f0f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801040957x703e758fv311542f197eae298@mail.gmail.com>

> Can I send data via HTTP POST with the header() function?

No.  Generally speaking, the header function sends *response* headers.
 HTTP POST data is sent as part of a *request* header.

I would recommend using curl to create http requests that contain post data.

Regards,
John Campbell


From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 13:06:36 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:06:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] XML to JSON?
In-Reply-To: <C3A3DD4E.5718A%rahmin@insite-out.com>
References: <a9caffe50801040919j30c6cac6kc6d7367074e66f0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3A3DD4E.5718A%rahmin@insite-out.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801041006j2c170644r4cbb360942944e53@mail.gmail.com>

Check out:

http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-xml2jsonphp/

On Jan 4, 2008 12:55 PM, Rahmin Pavlovic <rahmin at insite-out.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know of a clean way to covert XML directly to JSON?
>
> I'm currently using SimpleXMLElement to convert the tree to JSON, so I'm
> wondering if I can or if its even worth eliminating the middle-man.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From jeff at comprehensivity.com  Fri Jan  4 13:19:59 2008
From: jeff at comprehensivity.com (Jeff Knight)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 12:19:59 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <e7f5666b0801041019w783955f7q302ba4431abc100c@mail.gmail.com>

I do it because PHP tastes more like alligator or rattlesnake, whereas
Java tastes too much like chicken.


From randalrust at gmail.com  Fri Jan  4 13:24:10 2008
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 13:24:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] POSTing with HTTP and PHP
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801040957x703e758fv311542f197eae298@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50801040919j30c6cac6kc6d7367074e66f0f@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f0676b40801040957x703e758fv311542f197eae298@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50801041024q37975ec2v451d0480142e2eae@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 4, 2008 12:57 PM, John Campbell <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> No.  Generally speaking, the header function sends *response* headers.
>  HTTP POST data is sent as part of a *request* header.

that's what i thought. just needed to hear it from some better
programmers than myself:)

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Fri Jan  4 13:50:58 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 13:50:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <e7f5666b0801041019w783955f7q302ba4431abc100c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e7f5666b0801041019w783955f7q302ba4431abc100c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <477E8012.50908@tgaconnect.com>

Jeff Knight wrote:
> I do it because PHP tastes more like alligator or rattlesnake, whereas
> Java tastes too much like chicken.

Thought we had agreed you would do all your
graphical front end stuff in "flush"

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From aw at sap8.com  Fri Jan  4 14:31:31 2008
From: aw at sap8.com (Anthony Wlodarski)
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:31:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websites	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477E8012.50908@tgaconnect.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e7f5666b0801041019w783955f7q302ba4431abc100c@mail.gmail.com>
	<477E8012.50908@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <003e01c84f08$68aed4c0$3a0c7e40$@com>

Actually crocodile taste more like chicken than chicken tastes like chicken.

Anthony Wlodarski
646-285-0500 x230
aw at sap8.com

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Gales
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2008 1:51 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
instead of Java

Jeff Knight wrote:
> I do it because PHP tastes more like alligator or rattlesnake, whereas
> Java tastes too much like chicken.

Thought we had agreed you would do all your
graphical front end stuff in "flush"

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php




From ramons at gmx.net  Fri Jan  4 15:53:39 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:53:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] List of langauge/country names and codes
Message-ID: <477E9CD3.9010803@gmx.net>

Hi!
Does anyone of you have a list of language/country names in the native 
language and the associated country codes?
For example

USA - American English - en_us
UK - English - en_uk
Schweiz - Deutsch - ch_de
Suisse - Francais - ch_fr
Deutschland - Deutsch - de

and so on. Format is not important, country names are also optional as I guess 
someone in the USA could pick Deutsch (like me). I do want the native name of 
the language as someone who speeks only German may not know to look under "G" 
in the list rather than "D" for Deutsch.
Also, pointers where I could find such a list are welcome as well.

Thanks in advance,

David


From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Fri Jan  4 16:00:53 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 16:00:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] List of langauge/country names and codes
In-Reply-To: <477E9CD3.9010803@gmx.net>
References: <477E9CD3.9010803@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>

Google ISO and country codes, there is a standard set of country to 
country code mappings, along with a standard set of language to language 
code mappings.

David Krings wrote:
> Hi!
> Does anyone of you have a list of language/country names in the native 
> language and the associated country codes?
> For example
>
> USA - American English - en_us
> UK - English - en_uk
> Schweiz - Deutsch - ch_de
> Suisse - Francais - ch_fr
> Deutschland - Deutsch - de
>
> and so on. Format is not important, country names are also optional as 
> I guess someone in the USA could pick Deutsch (like me). I do want the 
> native name of the language as someone who speeks only German may not 
> know to look under "G" in the list rather than "D" for Deutsch.
> Also, pointers where I could find such a list are welcome as well.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Sat Jan  5 00:31:05 2008
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 00:31:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] XML to JSON?
In-Reply-To: <C3A3DD4E.5718A%rahmin@insite-out.com>
References: <C3A3DD4E.5718A%rahmin@insite-out.com>
Message-ID: <72714AB3-DA26-4C27-89C9-D6E9D15B1780@jonbaer.com>

Go straight to binary :-)

http://hessianphp.sourceforge.net/quickstart.html

All kidding aside, there is a nice client way w/ jQuery to accomplish  
it (cuz the client could always do *more* work) ...

http://plugins.jquery.com/project/xmlObjectifier

Examples:

http://www.terracoder.com/examples.html

- Jon

On Jan 4, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Rahmin Pavlovic wrote:

> Does anyone know of a clean way to covert XML directly to JSON?
>
> I'm currently using SimpleXMLElement to convert the tree to JSON, so  
> I'm
> wondering if I can or if its even worth eliminating the middle-man.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From ramons at gmx.net  Sat Jan  5 17:15:38 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:15:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] List of langauge/country names and codes
In-Reply-To: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
References: <477E9CD3.9010803@gmx.net> <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <4780018A.80403@gmx.net>

Gary Mort wrote:
> Google ISO and country codes, there is a standard set of country to 
> country code mappings, along with a standard set of language to language 
> code mappings.

After some extensive googling I found that the ISO codes are crap omitting 
about 80% of the langauges spoken in the world. That is why SIL created a new 
list, which is obviously way larger and uses three letter codes. Both lists 
are published and free to use (as far as I can tell), but both fail to list 
the languages in their native names. So for someone who doesn't speak English 
these lists are useless. In any case, the complete list is available here: 
http://www.ethnologue.com/codes/

I guess I keep on searching...

David


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Sat Jan  5 21:44:53 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 21:44:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHPThumb -- how does it work??
In-Reply-To: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A986@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
References: <EA0F84F436BC4498A2E197968442A6CE@ABS.Office>
	<E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702A986@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <E09313FE-50E4-4EBB-8470-07CC2E352B7A@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 4, 2008, at 6:18 AM, Jonathan Wagener wrote:
> Hi, I would like to know how I can make phpthumb work, I don't really
> understand how it works. How do I make it create thumbnails?

I haven't looked at phpthumb... but ImageMagick is sort of the  
"industry standard" for thumbnail creation.   Flickr uses it, for  
example.  It uses less system resources than GD and offers some easy  
methods to crop/constrain the thumbnails.

It's not actually part of php.  It's a standalone command-line  
application.  I believe there is a php extension for it... but it's  
not necessary, you can call command-line tools using the backtick  
operator.

The name command-line tool to create thumbnails with ImageMagick is  
called "convert" ("mogrify" can be used to resize a file and overwrite  
it).  Pretty much every *nix based host will have it available.  It's  
available for windows too -- http://www.imagemagick.org.

It's so simple... you'll love it.  Check this out:

<?php

$sourceImagePath = '/path/to/my/image.jpg';

// get string position of last dot (so we know where the file  
extension is)
$extPos = strrpos($sourceImagePath, '.');

// create thumbnail path by appending -thumb before the extension
// obviously can change this to work however you like
$thumbImagePath = substr($sourceImagePath, 0, $extPost) . "-thumb" .  
substr($sourceImagePath, $extPost);

// use ImageMagick to generate a thumbnail constrained to 100x100
$result = `convert $sourceImagePath -thumbnail 100x100 $thumbImagePath`;

?>

Want to get crazy and resize all jpg's to say 600x600 and create  
100x100 thumbnails and name them sequentially?

<?php

$sourceFolder = '/path/to/my/folder';
$result = `convert '$sourceFolder/*.jpg' -thumbnail 600x600 %03d- 
resized.jpg`;
$result = `convert '$sourceFolder/*-resized.jpg' -thumbnail 100x100  
%03d-thumb.jpg`;

?>

There's TONS more options for ImageMagick:  http://www.imagemagick.org/Usage

Good luck,
Rob



From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Sat Jan  5 22:29:33 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 22:29:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] List of langauge/country names and codes
In-Reply-To: <4780018A.80403@gmx.net>
References: <477E9CD3.9010803@gmx.net> <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
	<4780018A.80403@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801051929n7b3c13b0m5d93cc10af064494@mail.gmail.com>

> After some extensive googling I found that the ISO codes are crap omitting
> about 80% of the langauges spoken in the world. That is why SIL created a new
> list, which is obviously way larger and uses three letter codes. Both lists
> are published and free to use (as far as I can tell), but both fail to list
> the languages in their native names. So for someone who doesn't speak English
> these lists are useless. In any case, the complete list is available here:
> http://www.ethnologue.com/codes/

What are you trying to do?  If this is for translating software, just
use ISO 639-1 (language) + ISO 3166-1 (country).  If you attempt to
use ISO 639-3 it will be a huge mess.  ISO 639-1 may exclude 80% of
the "known" languages, but it covers 99.99% of the computer using
population.  It is also the format included in the "Accept-Language"
HTTP header.  The problem with ISO 639-3 is that it includes things
like 60 different Arabic dialects, but there is only one "software"
version of Arabic.

Regards,
John Campbell


From ramons at gmx.net  Sat Jan  5 23:07:57 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:07:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] List of langauge/country names and codes
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801051929n7b3c13b0m5d93cc10af064494@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477E9CD3.9010803@gmx.net>
	<477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>	<4780018A.80403@gmx.net>
	<8f0676b40801051929n7b3c13b0m5d93cc10af064494@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4780541D.50408@gmx.net>

John Campbell wrote:
>> After some extensive googling I found that the ISO codes are crap omitting
>> about 80% of the langauges spoken in the world. That is why SIL created a new
>> list, which is obviously way larger and uses three letter codes. Both lists
>> are published and free to use (as far as I can tell), but both fail to list
>> the languages in their native names. So for someone who doesn't speak English
>> these lists are useless. In any case, the complete list is available here:
>> http://www.ethnologue.com/codes/
> 
> What are you trying to do?  If this is for translating software, just
> use ISO 639-1 (language) + ISO 3166-1 (country).  If you attempt to
> use ISO 639-3 it will be a huge mess.  ISO 639-1 may exclude 80% of
> the "known" languages, but it covers 99.99% of the computer using
> population.  It is also the format included in the "Accept-Language"
> HTTP header.  The problem with ISO 639-3 is that it includes things
> like 60 different Arabic dialects, but there is only one "software"
> version of Arabic.

For my current project I use language dependent tables or better to say, some 
tables that are identical in structure exist multiple times once for each 
language currently supported in the system. Right now I only have tables that 
each have a common name extended by "_de" and "_en_us" (subject to change). 
Each user account can select the preferred language, which leaves only the 
login page up to guessing based on what the browser sends (and which in my 
case is sometimes inaccurate as I want German, but my browser sends over that 
it uses English). To me it just doesn't make sense to show in the list for 
example "Farsi", because Farsi doesn't use the latin alphabet. I also don't 
think that listing all languages by the English names makes much sense, 
because that way someone speaking German would need to look under "G" rather 
than "D" for "Deutsch".
I fully understand that I won't get a full and comprehensive list as there 
seems to be none, but I like to base it on the SIL three letter codes and fill 
in as much as possible with native names and writing as possible. I did find a 
few lists such as the one on wikipedia: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-2_codes

Now, you bring up a very good point. Since this all will be displayed in a 
browser in the end choosing something that isn't supported by the http header 
doesn't help much. SIL is working on getting their list to be the new ISO 
list, but that isn't the case and who knows when that happens. So I guess I 
save myself a lot of useless work and keep in mind that the SIL list exists, 
but go ahead and use ISO 639-1 for the language codes. That list is really 
kludgy as it really needs ISO 3166-1 to make sense as for example UK English 
is different from US English and different from Indian English. Not so much as 
that one being able to read one couldn't read the other, but there may be 
different words in use. For example, how many words are there for a grinder? 
There is grinder, hero, sub, sandwich, hoagie, po'boy and a bunch of other 
ones that I can't recall. Also, the word "sneaker" strikes me not to be common 
around the capital region. Likewise, I never heard of a package store being 
called a beverage store, but people generally understand what is meant unlike 
when talking to someone from California, where at least in some regions the 
package store is something like a UPS store or the post office. Also, in 
regards to German (de) there are German dialects in the US that have nothing 
to do with each other, such as the Pennsylvanian German and the Texas German, 
which both are not really close to the High German spoken in most parts of 
Germany, so how will then de_us differ from de_us?
I think I have to draw down my lofty goals quite a bit and prepare for 
expansion later as there are apparently a few things that are not likely to 
fall into place
- there is no list that I am looking, most likely due to the problems that I 
ran into
- ISO 639-1 seems to be the one and only widely supported language code list - 
even when this list rapidly inhales
- the chance to find all the native names and writings and display them 
properly in unicode is slim to none (not that unicode can't do it, but I won't 
have the input that I need), which will make my list to be largely incomplete 
pretty much forever
- even if I could compile a list of languages the way I want to, while it may 
suit others who are free to use it later, getting translations for a language 
spoken by a few hundred on a south pacific island is unlikely

I didn't want to base my approach on the fact who has a computer today or not. 
That would be shortsighted and arrogant, but I guess higher powers created a 
status quo that to ignore doesn't seem to be beneficial for anyone. I will 
need to think about this a bit more and come up with a solution that allows 
for adding/editing/changing the list in use.

Damn, I suck at saving the world...hehehe.

Thanks for showing me the wall I was about to run into.

David


From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Sun Jan  6 04:19:27 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 04:19:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] List of langauge/country names and codes
In-Reply-To: <4780018A.80403@gmx.net>
References: <477E9CD3.9010803@gmx.net> <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
	<4780018A.80403@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <47809D1F.8030006@beezifies.com>

David Krings wrote:
> but both fail to list the languages in their native names. So for 
> someone who doesn't speak English these lists are useless. In any 
> case, the complete list is available here: 
> http://www.ethnologue.com/codes/

Extend it.  Add an extra column for native language name, store it in 
UTF8, and use the current english version of the name but give users who 
choose the language an opportunity to fix the language for future users.

So initially, they may choose German (German).
But someone can submit an alternate spelling, which after you approve it 
changes it to
Duetch (German)

Though if you go by the UN standard, than display the alternate 
languages in English and French (English/French)


From don at donpavlish.com  Sun Jan  6 12:06:03 2008
From: don at donpavlish.com (Don Pavlish)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 12:06:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] version mismatch - MySQL vs. PHP MySQL client 
Message-ID: <34BEE64C-198F-43A0-8D32-B04C05BEA942@donpavlish.com>

Hi everyone,

Longtime lurker, posting for the first time.  :)

I'm coding a LAMP site now where the development server is running  
MySQL Server version 5.0.45 and PHP MySQL client library 5.0.41.   
Everything is working great.

However, the final server we'll be deploying the site on is through a  
different hosting provider.  They're also running MySQL 5.0.45, but  
an older version of the PHP MySQL client library -- version 4.1.22.

I've googled exhaustively but can't find any good documentation as to  
whether or not this will cause problems.  PHPMyAdmin seems to think  
so -- it warns me that "Your PHP MySQL library version 4.1.22 differs  
from your MySQL server version 5.0.54. This may cause unpredictable  
behavior."

Thus far I've run some simple tests on the final server and haven't  
seen any problems.  But I'm still concerned.  My gut feeling is that  
the MySQL version and the PHP client library should be the same major  
version... or am I just being paranoid?

Has anyone any experience / thoughts?

  thanks!
  - Don

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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Sun Jan  6 13:47:18 2008
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:47:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] version mismatch - MySQL vs. PHP MySQL client 
In-Reply-To: <34BEE64C-198F-43A0-8D32-B04C05BEA942@donpavlish.com>
References: <34BEE64C-198F-43A0-8D32-B04C05BEA942@donpavlish.com>
Message-ID: <FB565101-C7F7-4560-9503-900605952D90@jonbaer.com>

Ive had this come up a few times ... for the most part if your SQL is  
simple joins it will not really cause problems, the real problems are  
if you are using anything like prepared statements or something meant  
for mysqli extension.  http://us.php.net/mysqli (requires 4.1.3)

However since the advantages of using prepared statements (for you and  
your ISP) pretty much outweigh everything else it's probably good to  
be even more paranoid and use them :-)

Im sure you will get bit by something else down the road but if you  
test w/ a command line 4.1.x MySQL client and it chokes on one of your  
queries it would pretty much show you what will work + what will not.

Since PHPMyAdmin is more of a tool it will probably throw more admin  
related queries for info and bail out.  This type of situation is  
where it's nice to get a VPS setup vs. a normal ISP / shared hosting  
deal since you can compile and install this yourself.

- Jon

On Jan 6, 2008, at 12:06 PM, Don Pavlish wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Longtime lurker, posting for the first time.  :)
>
> I'm coding a LAMP site now where the development server is running  
> MySQL Server version 5.0.45 and PHP MySQL client library 5.0.41.   
> Everything is working great.
>
> However, the final server we'll be deploying the site on is through  
> a different hosting provider.  They're also running MySQL 5.0.45,  
> but an older version of the PHP MySQL client library -- version  
> 4.1.22.
>
> I've googled exhaustively but can't find any good documentation as  
> to whether or not this will cause problems.  PHPMyAdmin seems to  
> think so -- it warns me that "Your PHP MySQL library version 4.1.22  
> differs from your MySQL server version 5.0.54. This may cause  
> unpredictable behavior."
>
> Thus far I've run some simple tests on the final server and haven't  
> seen any problems.  But I'm still concerned.  My gut feeling is that  
> the MySQL version and the PHP client library should be the same  
> major version... or am I just being paranoid?
>
> Has anyone any experience / thoughts?
>
> thanks!
> - Don
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Sun Jan  6 13:48:03 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 13:48:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] version mismatch - MySQL vs. PHP MySQL client 
In-Reply-To: <34BEE64C-198F-43A0-8D32-B04C05BEA942@donpavlish.com>
References: <34BEE64C-198F-43A0-8D32-B04C05BEA942@donpavlish.com>
Message-ID: <617841CA-030A-4628-A687-391628E2222E@beaffinitive.com>

While it should basically work, I have had odd things happen in the  
past that seemed to be corrected by getting the client and server  
version to match.  4.1 is better than 4.0... I think it at least uses  
the same password encryption method as 5.0.  Still... your host should  
upgrade.  I think that's worthy of a support request to them.

Congrats on the first post :)
-Rob



From arlo at icall.com  Sun Jan  6 14:13:13 2008
From: arlo at icall.com (Arlo Gilbert)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 14:13:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Developer/Analyst Opportunity in Greenwich, CT
In-Reply-To: <11403511.1199552512614.JavaMail.root@m06>
References: <11403511.1199552512614.JavaMail.root@m06>
Message-ID: <92FE7650-702E-499A-B7A9-8B9C04E07A1E@icall.com>

Hey Guys & Gals,

I've posted this once previously a few months ago but received an  
underwhelming response :-/

iCall, a Greenwich, CT based edge VoIP service provider is looking for  
a talented "jack of all trades" developer/analyst to work full time in  
our Greenwich office.

PHP & MySQL are the two core skill sets that we require.

For more detail on this really fun & cool job please visit: http://www.icall.com/jobs.php

Even if you're not personally interested, if you do know of an  
individual who might qualify for this position and we hire them, we  
will pay a handsome referral fee.

Thanks everybody,
Arlo

Arlo C. Gilbert, CEO
iCall, Inc.
Two Sound View Drive
Greenwich, CT 06830




From lists at zaunere.com  Sun Jan  6 14:30:45 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 14:30:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Developer/Analyst Opportunity in Greenwich, CT
In-Reply-To: <92FE7650-702E-499A-B7A9-8B9C04E07A1E@icall.com>
References: <11403511.1199552512614.JavaMail.root@m06>
	<92FE7650-702E-499A-B7A9-8B9C04E07A1E@icall.com>
Message-ID: <02a001c8509a$a22a5c90$e67f15b0$@com>

Hi Arlo,

Your best bet is to post to our Jobs list.

http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/jobs

Thanks,

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org ?/ ?www.nyphp.com 





> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-
> bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On Behalf Of Arlo Gilbert
> Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 2:13 PM
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP Developer/Analyst Opportunity in Greenwich,
> CT
> 
> Hey Guys & Gals,
> 
> I've posted this once previously a few months ago but received an
> underwhelming response :-/
> 
> iCall, a Greenwich, CT based edge VoIP service provider is looking for
> a talented "jack of all trades" developer/analyst to work full time in
> our Greenwich office.
> 
> PHP & MySQL are the two core skill sets that we require.
> 
> For more detail on this really fun & cool job please visit:
> http://www.icall.com/jobs.php
> 
> Even if you're not personally interested, if you do know of an
> individual who might qualify for this position and we hire them, we
> will pay a handsome referral fee.
> 
> Thanks everybody,
> Arlo
> 
> Arlo C. Gilbert, CEO
> iCall, Inc.
> Two Sound View Drive
> Greenwich, CT 06830
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Sun Jan  6 16:47:19 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 16:47:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] version mismatch - MySQL vs. PHP MySQL client
In-Reply-To: <617841CA-030A-4628-A687-391628E2222E@beaffinitive.com>
References: <34BEE64C-198F-43A0-8D32-B04C05BEA942@donpavlish.com>
	<617841CA-030A-4628-A687-391628E2222E@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801061347s10e651f9x38dc9a4aa4fdf258@mail.gmail.com>

I've had the same issue, and it has caused issues with mysqli, but only
once, specifically when I tried to use the "SUM" command... if you can fix
this and get the library in sync with the server I'd do it.

- jake

On Jan 6, 2008 1:48 PM, Rob Marscher <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:

> While it should basically work, I have had odd things happen in the
> past that seemed to be corrected by getting the client and server
> version to match.  4.1 is better than 4.0... I think it at least uses
> the same password encryption method as 5.0.  Still... your host should
> upgrade.  I think that's worthy of a support request to them.
>
> Congrats on the first post :)
> -Rob
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From nynj.tech at hotmail.com  Mon Jan  7 17:22:17 2008
From: nynj.tech at hotmail.com (chad qian)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:22:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] email verification
Message-ID: <BLU126-W24099017BFD8DD0D11AD9AE84F0@phx.gbl>


Hi,
When people register,they will have their own username and password.In order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to click the link to active pages.
Here is my source code:
// send a message to the user's email account with a verification link        $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;            // header of the verification email message        $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .                   'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . phpversion();            // text of the verification email message        $verification_message =        "{$username},\n\n" .        "Please visit the link below to activate your new BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .        "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";            // send the message        mail( $email, $subject, $verification_message, $header );
 
It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use hotmail to test
 
Any better solution?
 
Thanks!
 
chad
_________________________________________________________________
Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008
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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Mon Jan  7 18:14:36 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:14:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] email verification
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-W24099017BFD8DD0D11AD9AE84F0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-W24099017BFD8DD0D11AD9AE84F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4782B25C.4080609@beezifies.com>

It's not your code, it's the underlying email system.

Most likely, hotmail is greylisting your domain, so it has to wait until 
the retry occurs to deliver it.

chad qian wrote:
> Hi,
> When people register,they will have their own username and password.In 
> order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to 
> click the link to active pages.
> Here is my source code:
> // send a message to the user's email account with a verification link
>         $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;
>    
>         // header of the verification email message
>         $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . _phpversion_ 
> <http://www.php.net/phpversion>();
>    
>         // text of the verification email message
>         $verification_message =
>         "{$username},\n\n" .
>         "Please visit the link below to activate your new 
> BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
>         "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . 
> $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
>    
>         // send the message
>         _mail_ <http://www.php.net/mail>( $email, $subject, 
> $verification_message, $header );
>  
> It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their 
> information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use 
> hotmail to test
>  
> Any better solution?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> chad
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows 
> Live?. Start now! 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 12:02:42 2008
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:02:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org> <477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>
	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 4, 2008 12:27 PM, Allen Shaw <ashaw at polymerdb.org> wrote:
> Gary Mort wrote:
> > FUDforum - you can subscribe forums to email lists and crosspost
> > between the two.
> >
> > It has a simple API for logon, so integration with Joomla should be
> > fairly simple.
> Great, thanks.  Any leads on an existing Joomla or SMF plugin that would
> facilitate easy email subscription to all messages in a forum?

There's an incompatibility between the GPL of Joomla and the license
they chose for SMF - so most efforts (at least on the Joomla side,
AFAICT) switched over to PHPBB - which, amazingly enough, has picked
up really rapid development as of late. You might want to check that
out.

-- Mitch


From rotsen at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 12:08:11 2008
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 09:08:11 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org> <477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>
	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>
	<330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60801080908q1ac1349j123725b613f03931@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,  I just install phpbb3.  What is SMF?

:-)

On Jan 8, 2008 9:02 AM, Mitch Pirtle <mitch.pirtle at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 4, 2008 12:27 PM, Allen Shaw <ashaw at polymerdb.org> wrote:
> > Gary Mort wrote:
> > > FUDforum - you can subscribe forums to email lists and crosspost
> > > between the two.
> > >
> > > It has a simple API for logon, so integration with Joomla should be
> > > fairly simple.
> > Great, thanks.  Any leads on an existing Joomla or SMF plugin that would
> > facilitate easy email subscription to all messages in a forum?
>
> There's an incompatibility between the GPL of Joomla and the license
> they chose for SMF - so most efforts (at least on the Joomla side,
> AFAICT) switched over to PHPBB - which, amazingly enough, has picked
> up really rapid development as of late. You might want to check that
> out.
>
> -- Mitch
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Tue Jan  8 12:27:29 2008
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:27:29 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>
	<477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>
	<330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4783B281.9010303@polymerdb.org>

Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> There's an incompatibility between the GPL of Joomla and the license
> they chose for SMF -
Right, I remember something about that.  There was quite a bit of ire, 
in some discussions, about a perceived lack of OS-friendly intentions 
among the SMF developers. 
>  so most efforts (at least on the Joomla side,
> AFAICT) switched over to PHPBB - which, amazingly enough, has picked
> up really rapid development as of late. You might want to check that
> out.
I'm not sure why this site's admins picked SMF over anything else in 
particular -- I'm betting it was the usual haphazard "google around 
until you find something that mostly works" method.  If they start 
looking for a new board, I'll recommend they look at PHPBB.

Thanks,
Allen

-- 
Allen Shaw
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)



From mitch.pirtle at gmail.com  Tue Jan  8 12:38:07 2008
From: mitch.pirtle at gmail.com (Mitch Pirtle)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:38:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <4783B281.9010303@polymerdb.org>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org> <477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>
	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>
	<330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>
	<4783B281.9010303@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <330532b60801080938s272771e9y3442513cd0688984@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 8, 2008 12:27 PM, Allen Shaw <ashaw at polymerdb.org> wrote:
> I'm not sure why this site's admins picked SMF over anything else in
> particular -- I'm betting it was the usual haphazard "google around
> until you find something that mostly works" method.  If they start
> looking for a new board, I'll recommend they look at PHPBB.

I can comment if "this site" means Joomla. Not commenting about the
gnashing of teeth and whatnot, but I can say that the frustration
about licensing was on both sides of that story...

Back in the Mambo years, we had a license for VBB, and used it
exclusively. Knowing there was support, and having a relatively
scalable forum was critical to us. However, when we relaunched
ourselves as Joomla, we had an opportunity to get off the commercial
forum treadmill of license update$. At the time, SMF was fast and
secure, and PHPBB was bloated and security was a train wreck.

Today, I'd have to revise that harsh review of PHPBB as a *ton* of
activity has been going on over there. As well, the licensing
compatibility - and eagerness of the PHPBB team to help us Joomloids -
I can see a lot of integration between the two, if not already then
real soon now.

-- Mitch


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Tue Jan  8 12:57:09 2008
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:57:09 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <330532b60801080938s272771e9y3442513cd0688984@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>
	<477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>	<330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>	<4783B281.9010303@polymerdb.org>
	<330532b60801080938s272771e9y3442513cd0688984@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4783B975.8050800@polymerdb.org>

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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Tue Jan  8 13:04:27 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:04:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <330532b60801080938s272771e9y3442513cd0688984@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>
	<477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>	<330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>	<4783B281.9010303@polymerdb.org>
	<330532b60801080938s272771e9y3442513cd0688984@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4783BB2B.2050508@beezifies.com>

Mitch Pirtle wrote:
> Today, I'd have to revise that harsh review of PHPBB as a *ton* of
> activity has been going on over there. As well, the licensing
> compatibility - and eagerness of the PHPBB team to help us Joomloids -
> I can see a lot of integration between the two, if not already then
> real soon now.
>   
Eh, my wife doesn't like PHPBB.  Also, purely personal, but the PHPBB 
team, or at least their forum moderator, believes that when you submit a 
post on a PHPBB powered forum run by someone else, that the person 
running the forum is given exclusive copyright to the material you 
post(as in copying your post from that forum and posting it somewhere 
else is illegal and a copyright violation). 


From ashaw at polymerdb.org  Tue Jan  8 13:15:09 2008
From: ashaw at polymerdb.org (Allen Shaw)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 12:15:09 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <4783BB2B.2050508@beezifies.com>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>	<477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>	<330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>	<4783B281.9010303@polymerdb.org>	<330532b60801080938s272771e9y3442513cd0688984@mail.gmail.com>
	<4783BB2B.2050508@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <4783BDAD.5030406@polymerdb.org>

Gary Mort wrote:
> Also, purely personal, but the PHPBB team, or at least their forum 
> moderator, believes that when you submit a post on a PHPBB powered 
> forum run by someone else, that the person running the forum is given 
> exclusive copyright to the material you post(as in copying your post 
> from that forum and posting it somewhere else is illegal and a 
> copyright violation).
Dang it, IANAL.  I'll bite:  Does it matter what one forum moderator 
believes about other forums? 

- A.


-- 
Allen Shaw
slidePresenter (http://slides.sourceforge.net)



From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Tue Jan  8 13:24:21 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 13:24:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] combining forum and list (Joomla / SMF)
In-Reply-To: <4783BDAD.5030406@polymerdb.org>
References: <477E5467.2040606@polymerdb.org>	<477E5A5E.6030009@beezifies.com>	<477E6C96.40002@polymerdb.org>	<330532b60801080902m4745f84fmd0f0542d4b543989@mail.gmail.com>	<4783B281.9010303@polymerdb.org>	<330532b60801080938s272771e9y3442513cd0688984@mail.gmail.com>	<4783BB2B.2050508@beezifies.com>
	<4783BDAD.5030406@polymerdb.org>
Message-ID: <4783BFD5.1030602@beezifies.com>

Allen Shaw wrote:
> Gary Mort wrote:
>> Also, purely personal, but the PHPBB team, or at least their forum 
>> moderator, believes that when you submit a post on a PHPBB powered 
>> forum run by someone else, that the person running the forum is given 
>> exclusive copyright to the material you post(as in copying your post 
>> from that forum and posting it somewhere else is illegal and a 
>> copyright violation).
> Dang it, IANAL.  I'll bite:  Does it matter what one forum moderator 
> believes about other forums?

It does when your trying to find a way for a group of people to save 5 
years of posts from one private forum when the forum owner has gone a 
little off his rocker and is threatening to shut down the forum if 
everyone doesn't cater to his ego needs.  :-)  However, in the end, they 
copy and pasted every single post into large zip files on their new 
forum before I got any spidering solution in place, so their happy.

It did make me reluctant to post code fixes to the PHPBB forum in the 
future if they felt my posting there means I can't use the same code 
elsewhere without their permission.

Now, it may be that they felt that since the same methods used to copy 
your own posts from a forum could be used to copy others posts from 
another forum, and that was what they wanted to discourage.  But since 
that isn't what the moderator said, and he didn't reply to my request 
for clarification, I have to go by his word not a guess at what he means.




From radalapsker at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  8 17:08:44 2008
From: radalapsker at yahoo.com (-- rada --)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 14:08:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: email verification (Gary Mort)
Message-ID: <727335.6849.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Gary,

I noticed that your From header and your Reply-to headers are different. In my experience, hotmail (and many others) will penalize you and stick your email in the spam folder, or delay delivery. You are not doing anything "illegal" per say but nevertheless, it's a red flag to a lot of free email providers.

Cheers,
Rada

----- Original Message ----
From: "talk-request at lists.nyphp.org" <talk-request at lists.nyphp.org>
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 12:01:46 PM
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14


Send talk mailing list submissions to
    talk at lists.nyphp.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    talk-request at lists.nyphp.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
    talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
Today's Topics:

   1. email verification (chad qian)
   2. Re: email verification (Gary Mort)


-----Inline Message Follows-----




.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}


Hi,

When people register,they will have their own username and password.In order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to click the link to active pages.

Here is my source code:

// send a message to the user's email account with a verification link
        $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;
    
        // header of the verification email message
        $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
                   'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" . 
                   'X-Mailer: PHP/' . phpversion();
    
        // text of the verification email message
        $verification_message =
        "{$username},\n\n" .
        "Please visit the link below to activate your new BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
        "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
    
        // send the message
        mail( $email, $subject, $verification_message, $header );

 

It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use hotmail to test

 

Any better solution?

 

Thanks!

 

chad


Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?. Start now!



.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
body.hmmessage
{
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}


Hi,

When people register,they will have their own username and password.In order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to click the link to active pages.

Here is my source code:

// send a message to the user's email account with a verification link
        $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;
    
        // header of the verification email message
        $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
                   'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" . 
                   'X-Mailer: PHP/' . phpversion();
    
        // text of the verification email message
        $verification_message =
        "{$username},\n\n" .
        "Please visit the link below to activate your new BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
        "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
    
        // send the message
        mail( $email, $subject, $verification_message, $header );

 

It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use hotmail to test

 

Any better solution?

 

Thanks!

 

chad


Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows Live?. Start now!

-----Inline Message Follows-----

It's not your code, it's the underlying email system.

Most likely, hotmail is greylisting your domain, so it has to wait
 until 
the retry occurs to deliver it.

chad qian wrote:
> Hi,
> When people register,they will have their own username and
 password.In 
> order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to 
> click the link to active pages.
> Here is my source code:
> // send a message to the user's email account with a verification
 link
>         $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' .
 $username;
>    
>         // header of the verification email message
>         $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n"
 .
>                    'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . _phpversion_ 
> <http://www.php.net/phpversion>();
>    
>         // text of the verification email message
>         $verification_message =
>         "{$username},\n\n" .
>         "Please visit the link below to activate your new 
> BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
>         "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . 
> $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
>    
>         // send the message
>         _mail_ <http://www.php.net/mail>( $email, $subject, 
> $verification_message, $header );
>  
> It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their 
> information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I
 use 
> hotmail to test
>  
> Any better solution?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> chad
>
>
>
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows 
> Live?. Start now! 
>
 <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008> 
>
>
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



It's not your code, it's the underlying email system.

Most likely, hotmail is greylisting your domain, so it has to wait
 until 
the retry occurs to deliver it.

chad qian wrote:
> Hi,
> When people register,they will have their own username and
 password.In 
> order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to 
> click the link to active pages.
> Here is my source code:
> // send a message to the user's email account with a verification
 link
>         $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' .
 $username;
>    
>         // header of the verification email message
>         $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n"
 .
>                    'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . _phpversion_ 
> <http://www.php.net/phpversion>();
>    
>         // text of the verification email message
>         $verification_message =
>         "{$username},\n\n" .
>         "Please visit the link below to activate your new 
> BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
>         "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . 
> $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
>    
>         // send the message
>         _mail_ <http://www.php.net/mail>( $email, $subject, 
> $verification_message, $header );
>  
> It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their 
> information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I
 use 
> hotmail to test
>  
> Any better solution?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> chad
>
>
>
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows 
> Live?. Start now! 
>
 <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008> 
>
>
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nyphp.org
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
-------------- next part --------------
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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Tue Jan  8 17:16:49 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:16:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: email verification (Gary Mort)
In-Reply-To: <727335.6849.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <727335.6849.qm@web54105.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4783F651.6090202@beezifies.com>

Hmm, I just sent a test email to myself and the headers are being 
formatted correctly on that one.

Are you referring to the reply-to on list email being talk at lists.nyphp.org ?

That's set by the nyphp email list when it relays the email.

(Mind you, there are many times when those 2 addresses don't match for 
me, since I use specific email addresses for different lists)




-- rada -- wrote:
> Gary,
>
> I noticed that your From header and your Reply-to headers are 
> different. In my experience, hotmail (and many others) will penalize 
> you and stick your email in the spam folder, or delay delivery. You 
> are not doing anything "illegal" per say but nevertheless, it's a red 
> flag to a lot of free email providers.
>
> Cheers,
> Rada
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "talk-request at lists.nyphp.org" <talk-request at lists.nyphp.org>
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 12:01:46 PM
> Subject: talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14
>
> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>     talk at lists.nyphp.org <mailto:talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>     talk-request at lists.nyphp.org <mailto:talk-request at lists.nyphp.org>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>     talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org <mailto:talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. email verification (chad qian)
>   2. Re: email verification (Gary Mort)
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> Hi,
> When people register,they will have their own username and password.In 
> order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to 
> click the link to active pages.
> Here is my source code:
> // send a message to the user's email account with a verification link
>         $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;
>    
>         // header of the verification email message
>         $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . _phpversion_ 
> <http://www.php.net/phpversion>();
>    
>         // text of the verification email message
>         $verification_message =
>         "{$username},\n\n" .
>         "Please visit the link below to activate your new 
> BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
>         "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . 
> $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
>    
>         // send the message
>         _mail_ <http://www.php.net/mail>( $email, $subject, 
> $verification_message, $header );
>  
> It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their 
> information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use 
> hotmail to test
>  
> Any better solution?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> chad
>
>
> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows 
> Live?. Start now! 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008>
> Hi,
> When people register,they will have their own username and password.In 
> order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to 
> click the link to active pages.
> Here is my source code:
> // send a message to the user's email account with a verification link
>         $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;
>    
>         // header of the verification email message
>         $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com' . "\r\n" .
>                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . _phpversion_ 
> <http://www.php.net/phpversion>();
>    
>         // text of the verification email message
>         $verification_message =
>         "{$username},\n\n" .
>         "Please visit the link below to activate your new 
> BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
>         "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" . 
> $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
>    
>         // send the message
>         _mail_ <http://www.php.net/mail>( $email, $subject, 
> $verification_message, $header );
>  
> It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their 
> information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use 
> hotmail to test
>  
> Any better solution?
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> chad
>
>
> Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows 
> Live?. Start now! 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008> 
>
>
>
> -----Inline Message Follows-----
>
> It's not your code, it's the underlying email system.
>
> Most likely, hotmail is greylisting your domain, so it has to wait until
> the retry occurs to deliver it.
>
> chad qian wrote:
> > Hi,
> > When people register,they will have their own username and password.In
> > order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to
> > click the link to active pages.
> > Here is my source code:
> > // send a message to the user's email account with a verification link
> >        $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;
> >   
> >        // header of the verification email message
> >        $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com 
> <mailto:AccountActivation at barterjunk.com>' . "\r\n" .
> >                    'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com 
> <mailto:webmaster at barterjunk.com>' . "\r\n" .
> >                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . _phpversion_
> > <http://www.php.net/phpversion>();
> >   
> >        // text of the verification email message
> >        $verification_message =
> >        "{$username},\n\n" .
> >        "Please visit the link below to activate your new
> > BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
> >        "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" .
> > $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
> >   
> >        // send the message
> >        _mail_ <http://www.php.net/mail>( $email, $subject,
> > $verification_message, $header );
> > 
> > It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their
> > information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use
> > hotmail to test
> > 
> > Any better solution?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > chad
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows
> > Live?. Start now!
> > 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008> 
>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> It's not your code, it's the underlying email system.
>
> Most likely, hotmail is greylisting your domain, so it has to wait until
> the retry occurs to deliver it.
>
> chad qian wrote:
> > Hi,
> > When people register,they will have their own username and password.In
> > order to active their account,they have to go to their email acct to
> > click the link to active pages.
> > Here is my source code:
> > // send a message to the user's email account with a verification link
> >        $subject = 'BarterJunk.com account activation for ' . $username;
> >   
> >        // header of the verification email message
> >        $header  = 'From: AccountActivation at barterjunk.com 
> <mailto:AccountActivation at barterjunk.com>' . "\r\n" .
> >                    'Reply-To: webmaster at barterjunk.com 
> <mailto:webmaster at barterjunk.com>' . "\r\n" .
> >                    'X-Mailer: PHP/' . _phpversion_
> > <http://www.php.net/phpversion>();
> >   
> >        // text of the verification email message
> >        $verification_message =
> >        "{$username},\n\n" .
> >        "Please visit the link below to activate your new
> > BarterJunk.com account.\n\n" .
> >        "http://www.barterjunk.com/?activation_code=" .
> > $user_data['activation_hash'] . "\n";
> >   
> >        // send the message
> >        _mail_ <http://www.php.net/mail>( $email, $subject,
> > $verification_message, $header );
> > 
> > It works,but it takes very long time.After people submit all their
> > information,they will get verification email after 20-30 minutes.I use
> > hotmail to test
> > 
> > Any better solution?
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > chad
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Make distant family not so distant with Windows Vista? + Windows
> > Live?. Start now!
> > 
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/digitallife/keepintouch.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_VideoChat_distantfamily_012008> 
>
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nyphp.org <mailto:talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! 
> Search. 
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping> 
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Tue Jan  8 17:19:35 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:19:35 -0500
Subject: Apologies, was Re: [nycphp-talk] email verification
In-Reply-To: <4782B25C.4080609@beezifies.com>
References: <BLU126-W24099017BFD8DD0D11AD9AE84F0@phx.gbl>
	<4782B25C.4080609@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <4783F6F7.5080805@beezifies.com>

I apologise to the list, it wasn't until I saw the reply to me that I 
realised I had failed to trim the quoted text from the email I responded to.


From rahmin at insite-out.com  Tue Jan  8 18:34:52 2008
From: rahmin at insite-out.com (Rahmin Pavlovic)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:34:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Suhosin
In-Reply-To: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>

Anyone here install Suhosin?  Pluses, minuses?




From urb at e-government.com  Tue Jan  8 21:27:46 2008
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:27:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>

I have been using the TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor. I not happy with it
because it mangles anything that is cut and pasted from MS Word.
Does anyone have an alternative suggestion?

Thanks

Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
609-294-0320  800-204-9545
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.




From dorgan at donaldorgan.com  Tue Jan  8 21:37:11 2008
From: dorgan at donaldorgan.com (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:37:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <47843357.2050903@donaldorgan.com>

http://www.extjs.org  has a htmleditor.

Urb LeJeune wrote:
> I have been using the TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor. I not happy with it
> because it mangles anything that is cut and pasted from MS Word.
> Does anyone have an alternative suggestion?
>
> Thanks
>
> Urb
>
> Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
> E-Government.com
> 609-294-0320  800-204-9545
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From ramons at gmx.net  Tue Jan  8 22:27:43 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:27:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>

Urb LeJeune wrote:
> I have been using the TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor. I not happy with it
> because it mangles anything that is cut and pasted from MS Word.
> Does anyone have an alternative suggestion?

I tried FCKEditor some time ago and was quite impressed, but I don't recall 
pasting anything from Word. I don't use Word.

David


From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com  Tue Jan  8 22:42:50 2008
From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:42:50 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Another Apostrophe-related issue
Message-ID: <1199850170.12679@coral.he.net>

I'm having yet another apostrophe-related issue.  It seems that the 
slashes are being added automatically by the HTML form and inserted 
into the database on save.  Magic quotes is on (get_magic_quotes_gpc
(); returns 1) and I have removed any addslashes() functions from my 
code.

The slashes seem to be spawning, i.e. the first round after 
entering 's and saving, I get back /'s in the text box, the next 
round ///'s, etc.

Soon enough I have a text box full of ////////////////////////////////

Apparently I'm missing something here....

Thanks, Kristina.


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Tue Jan  8 23:06:12 2008
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:06:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Another Apostrophe-related issue
In-Reply-To: <1199850170.12679@coral.he.net>
References: <1199850170.12679@coral.he.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.20.1363003722.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 10:42 PM 1/8/2008, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>I'm having yet another apostrophe-related issue.  It seems that the
>slashes are being added automatically by the HTML form and inserted
>into the database on save.  Magic quotes is on (get_magic_quotes_gpc
>(); returns 1) and I have removed any addslashes() functions from my
>code.
>
>The slashes seem to be spawning, i.e. the first round after
>entering 's and saving, I get back /'s in the text box, the next
>round ///'s, etc.
>
>Soon enough I have a text box full of ////////////////////////////////

You should be using

$var = mysql_real_escape_string(stripslashes($var));

before adding to your database.

After you retrieve the value, use
$var = htmlentities(stripslashes($var),ENT_QUOTES);

when displaying the value back to the screen.

Ken 



From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Tue Jan  8 23:11:45 2008
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 23:11:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
	<47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <D9CBA1BF-A5A5-4D53-8362-F5A1BBACF1E8@jonbaer.com>

Yes, FCKEditor does have a bunch of special hooks for dealing w/ copy/ 
paste from Word.  "Paste from Word cleanup with auto detection"

http://www.fckeditor.net

- Jon

On Jan 8, 2008, at 10:27 PM, David Krings wrote:

> Urb LeJeune wrote:
>> I have been using the TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor. I not happy with it
>> because it mangles anything that is cut and pasted from MS Word.
>> Does anyone have an alternative suggestion?
>
> I tried FCKEditor some time ago and was quite impressed, but I don't  
> recall pasting anything from Word. I don't use Word.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From guilhermeblanco at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 06:40:44 2008
From: guilhermeblanco at gmail.com (Guilherme Blanco)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 09:40:44 -0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <D9CBA1BF-A5A5-4D53-8362-F5A1BBACF1E8@jonbaer.com>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
	<47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
	<D9CBA1BF-A5A5-4D53-8362-F5A1BBACF1E8@jonbaer.com>
Message-ID: <bcb7aa500801090340x74518163jea6d19b8cabdfa34@mail.gmail.com>

The best one I've ever seen is Xinha: http://xinha.webfactional.com/


Regards,

On Jan 9, 2008 2:11 AM, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
> Yes, FCKEditor does have a bunch of special hooks for dealing w/ copy/
> paste from Word.  "Paste from Word cleanup with auto detection"
>
> http://www.fckeditor.net
>
> - Jon
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2008, at 10:27 PM, David Krings wrote:
>
> > Urb LeJeune wrote:
> >> I have been using the TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor. I not happy with it
> >> because it mangles anything that is cut and pasted from MS Word.
> >> Does anyone have an alternative suggestion?
> >
> > I tried FCKEditor some time ago and was quite impressed, but I don't
> > recall pasting anything from Word. I don't use Word.
> >
> > David
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
URL: http://blog.bisna.com
S?o Carlos - SP/Brazil

From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan  9 10:06:17 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:06:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <bcb7aa500801090340x74518163jea6d19b8cabdfa34@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
	<47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
	<D9CBA1BF-A5A5-4D53-8362-F5A1BBACF1E8@jonbaer.com>
	<bcb7aa500801090340x74518163jea6d19b8cabdfa34@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801090706t925232fn48ea8628fdeebdca@mail.gmail.com>

Recently did a pretty exhaustive survey of JavaScript HTML editors, I
found that YUI-editor to be the best and most actively developed, I'm
not sure if it natively supports Word Cut + Paste though:

http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/editor/

A note: All JS HTML editors have different quirks for each browser.
Before moving anything to production, I highly recommend doing an
exhaustive round of testing and allowing your users to try the editor
out as an "In Testing" feature.

- jake

On Jan 9, 2008 6:40 AM, Guilherme Blanco <guilhermeblanco at gmail.com> wrote:
> The best one I've ever seen is Xinha: http://xinha.webfactional.com/
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> On Jan 9, 2008 2:11 AM, Jon Baer <jonbaer at jonbaer.com> wrote:
> > Yes, FCKEditor does have a bunch of special hooks for dealing w/ copy/
> > paste from Word.  "Paste from Word cleanup with auto detection"
> >
> > http://www.fckeditor.net
> >
> > - Jon
> >
> >
> > On Jan 8, 2008, at 10:27 PM, David Krings wrote:
> >
> > > Urb LeJeune wrote:
> > >> I have been using the TinyMCE WYSIWYG editor. I not happy with it
> > >> because it mangles anything that is cut and pasted from MS Word.
> > >> Does anyone have an alternative suggestion?
> > >
> > > I tried FCKEditor some time ago and was quite impressed, but I don't
> > > recall pasting anything from Word. I don't use Word.
> > >
> > > David
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > >
> > > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > >
> > > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
> CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
> Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
> MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
> URL: http://blog.bisna.com
> S?o Carlos - SP/Brazil
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Wed Jan  9 10:55:07 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 10:55:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Another Apostrophe-related issue
In-Reply-To: <20080109040650.B4BE23481E@mail2.panix.com>
References: <1199850170.12679@coral.he.net>
	<20080109040650.B4BE23481E@mail2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <20080109155507.GA557@panix.com>

On Tue, Jan 08, 2008 at 11:06:12PM -0500, Ken Robinson wrote:
> 
> $var = mysql_real_escape_string(stripslashes($var));

The best approach is to turn off the magic quotes and use 
mysql_real_escape_string() directly without doing stripslashes().


> After you retrieve the value, use
> $var = htmlentities(stripslashes($var),ENT_QUOTES);

If you do things right going in to the database you should not have to 
strip slashes on the way out.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Wed Jan  9 12:40:09 2008
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 12:40:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Another Apostrophe-related issue
In-Reply-To: <20080109173312.A12DE141C075@mail.lansmash.com>
References: <1199850170.12679@coral.he.net>
	<20080109173312.A12DE141C075@mail.lansmash.com>
Message-ID: <478506F9.1040600@phpwerx.net>

Ken Robinson wrote:
> At 10:42 PM 1/8/2008, Kristina Anderson wrote:
>> I'm having yet another apostrophe-related issue.  It seems that the
>> slashes are being added automatically by the HTML form and inserted
>> into the database on save.  Magic quotes is on (get_magic_quotes_gpc
>> (); returns 1) and I have removed any addslashes() functions from my
>> code.
>>
>> The slashes seem to be spawning, i.e. the first round after
>> entering 's and saving, I get back /'s in the text box, the next
>> round ///'s, etc.
>>
>> Soon enough I have a text box full of ////////////////////////////////
> 
> You should be using
> 
> $var = mysql_real_escape_string(stripslashes($var));
> 
> before adding to your database.
> 
> After you retrieve the value, use
> $var = htmlentities(stripslashes($var),ENT_QUOTES);
> 
> when displaying the value back to the screen.
> 
> Ken

Umm, no.

Lose both invocations of stripslashes and it will work properly.

You should be using

$var = mysql_real_escape_string($var);

before adding to your database.

After you retrieve the value, use
$var = htmlentities($var,ENT_QUOTES);

when displaying the value back to the screen.

See http://nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php for more details.

Dan


From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com  Wed Jan  9 20:07:37 2008
From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:07:37 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Another Apostrophe-related issue
Message-ID: <1199927257.21325@coral.he.net>

Thanks!  And this will result in it being saved into the database with 
no escape characters, which is the proper way to do it as I can see.


> Ken Robinson wrote:
> > At 10:42 PM 1/8/2008, Kristina Anderson wrote:
> >> I'm having yet another apostrophe-related issue.  It seems that 
the
> >> slashes are being added automatically by the HTML form and 
inserted
> >> into the database on save.  Magic quotes is on 
(get_magic_quotes_gpc
> >> (); returns 1) and I have removed any addslashes() functions from 
my
> >> code.
> >>
> >> The slashes seem to be spawning, i.e. the first round after
> >> entering 's and saving, I get back /'s in the text box, the next
> >> round ///'s, etc.
> >>
> >> Soon enough I have a text box full 
of ////////////////////////////////
> > 
> > You should be using
> > 
> > $var = mysql_real_escape_string(stripslashes($var));
> > 
> > before adding to your database.
> > 
> > After you retrieve the value, use
> > $var = htmlentities(stripslashes($var),ENT_QUOTES);
> > 
> > when displaying the value back to the screen.
> > 
> > Ken
> 
> Umm, no.
> 
> Lose both invocations of stripslashes and it will work properly.
> 
> You should be using
> 
> $var = mysql_real_escape_string($var);
> 
> before adding to your database.
> 
> After you retrieve the value, use
> $var = htmlentities($var,ENT_QUOTES);
> 
> when displaying the value back to the screen.
> 
> See http://nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php for more 
details.
> 
> Dan
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 

-------------------
Kristina D. H. Anderson
Senior Application Developer/Consultant
"Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time"
646-247-4987



From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com  Wed Jan  9 20:44:37 2008
From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson)
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 17:44:37 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Another Apostrophe-related issue
Message-ID: <1199929477.1227@coral.he.net>

What was really strange was that this wasn't happening with any of the 
other forms...I think that existing escape characters in the data 
caused the initial issue?

> Thanks!  And this will result in it being saved into the database 
with 
> no escape characters, which is the proper way to do it as I can see.
> 
> 
> > Ken Robinson wrote:
> > > At 10:42 PM 1/8/2008, Kristina Anderson wrote:
> > >> I'm having yet another apostrophe-related issue.  It seems that 
> the
> > >> slashes are being added automatically by the HTML form and 
> inserted
> > >> into the database on save.  Magic quotes is on 
> (get_magic_quotes_gpc
> > >> (); returns 1) and I have removed any addslashes() functions 
from 
> my
> > >> code.
> > >>
> > >> The slashes seem to be spawning, i.e. the first round after
> > >> entering 's and saving, I get back /'s in the text box, the next
> > >> round ///'s, etc.
> > >>
> > >> Soon enough I have a text box full 
> of ////////////////////////////////
> > > 
> > > You should be using
> > > 
> > > $var = mysql_real_escape_string(stripslashes($var));
> > > 
> > > before adding to your database.
> > > 
> > > After you retrieve the value, use
> > > $var = htmlentities(stripslashes($var),ENT_QUOTES);
> > > 
> > > when displaying the value back to the screen.
> > > 
> > > Ken
> > 
> > Umm, no.
> > 
> > Lose both invocations of stripslashes and it will work properly.
> > 
> > You should be using
> > 
> > $var = mysql_real_escape_string($var);
> > 
> > before adding to your database.
> > 
> > After you retrieve the value, use
> > $var = htmlentities($var,ENT_QUOTES);
> > 
> > when displaying the value back to the screen.
> > 
> > See http://nyphp.org/phundamentals/storingretrieving.php for more 
> details.
> > 
> > Dan
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> > 
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> > 
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> > 
> > 
> 
> -------------------
> Kristina D. H. Anderson
> Senior Application Developer/Consultant
> "Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time"
> 646-247-4987
> 
> 
> 
> 

-------------------
Kristina D. H. Anderson
Senior Application Developer/Consultant
"Building a Better Tomorrow, One Line of Code at a Time"
646-247-4987



From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 08:09:05 2008
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:09:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla and SE Friendly URLs
Message-ID: <a9caffe50801100509j17bf849ar2f01c40adbaad962@mail.gmail.com>

These should be pretty easy questions for the Joomla experts. I have a
meeting with a potential client this afternoon who had the current
version of their site built by a turnkey service using Joomla. The
meeting is all about SEO and SEM, and I noticed two things right away
when I looked at their site.

1. The keywords are not at the beginning of the TITLE. How difficult
is it to switch the site name and the title of the page? So instead of
'R2 Joomla Test - Columbus Ohio Web Design' I can have 'Columbus Ohio
Web Design - R2 Joomla Test.'

2. The URLs do not contain keywords. Rather than....

http://rrjoomla.com/content/view/12/2/

...I need to have....

http://rrjoomla.com/content/view/columbus-ohio-web-design/

Can I do that out of the box?

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From paul at gubavision.com  Thu Jan 10 08:23:07 2008
From: paul at gubavision.com (Paul Guba)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:23:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla and SE Friendly URLs
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50801100509j17bf849ar2f01c40adbaad962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50801100509j17bf849ar2f01c40adbaad962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1915430-FD40-4F00-867D-DD7A6D1B243B@gubavision.com>

I would be interested in what others say as well as I am about to  
implement a solution.  What I am looking at is ARTIO JoomSEF.   
Installed but not configured yet.  Think I'll wait a bit to hear what  
you all say.

Paul Guba
On Jan 10, 2008, at 8:09 AM, Randal Rust wrote:

> These should be pretty easy questions for the Joomla experts. I have a
> meeting with a potential client this afternoon who had the current
> version of their site built by a turnkey service using Joomla. The
> meeting is all about SEO and SEM, and I noticed two things right away
> when I looked at their site.
>
> 1. The keywords are not at the beginning of the TITLE. How difficult
> is it to switch the site name and the title of the page? So instead of
> 'R2 Joomla Test - Columbus Ohio Web Design' I can have 'Columbus Ohio
> Web Design - R2 Joomla Test.'
>
> 2. The URLs do not contain keywords. Rather than....
>
> http://rrjoomla.com/content/view/12/2/
>
> ...I need to have....
>
> http://rrjoomla.com/content/view/columbus-ohio-web-design/
>
> Can I do that out of the box?
>
> -- 
> Randal Rust
> R.Squared Communications
> www.r2communications.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Jan 10 12:38:15 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:38:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
Message-ID: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>

Hi!

I got sucked into a (probably pointless) discussion about ASP vs. PHP. One of 
the arguments against using PHP was that there is only a single namespace. 
Uhm, that took the wind out of my sail as I have no clue what a namespace is 
and why having only one is really bad.

Anyone can explain that to me in laymen terms?

David


From guilhermeblanco at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 13:11:29 2008
From: guilhermeblanco at gmail.com (Guilherme Blanco)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:11:29 -0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <bcb7aa500801101011p710101b7x766df7e476e53c7e@mail.gmail.com>

In a few words, one namespace is a way to organize code into scopes.
By doing this, you prevent collisions when mixing libraries.

One example...

Packages Creole, Doctrine and PEAR_DB. All of them has one class named
Connection (Ok, I know they already differ in names, but this is just
one example).
Instead of control the class name by prefixing it the lib (like
Doctrine_Connection, Creole_Connection, DB_Connection), you can
declare your classes normally (Connection to all) and use them without
care about conflicts.

This organization brings to you less letters to type, preventing you
to call for example... Doctrine_Collection_Iterator_Expandable and
just care about Expandable in your calls, by importing the
Doctrine::Collection::Iterator namespace.

Also, the entire discussion of "single" namespace is wrong.
What is being discussed there is the possibility to define only one
namespace per file or more then that. I am +1 in more than 1, but it
has some serious performance issues by doing this. Currently, this is
impossible in PHP:

namespace MyNS;

class Foo {}

class Bar {}

namespace MyNS2;

class Foo2 {}

In this case, you should move the MyNS2 into a different file. This is
bad, since there are some libraries (example: Doctrine) that has a
compiler which compiles the entire source into a single file. Doctrine
is the best ORM for PHP today, and it has more than 100 possible
namespaces. Compiler then is unable to pack into a single file if it
is ported to 5.3.


Also, ASP (read as .NET) allows you to define inner namespaces.

namespace MyNS {
    namespace SubNS1 {
        class Foo {}
        class Bar {}
    }

    class Foo2 {}
}

PHP does not have this support directly. You should do this:

file1.php

namespace MyNS;

class Foo2 {}



file2.php

namespace MyNS::SubNS1;

class Foo {}

class Bar {}




Everything evolving namespaces in PHP is a delicate subject and must
be dealt with care. Dev team is working hard to improve performance,
and allowing some constructions that users want can slow down
execution (since it'll move from compile time into runtime).

Is everything clear for you now? If not, just reply to message and I
can answer, without any problem.... =)



Regards,

On Jan 10, 2008 3:38 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I got sucked into a (probably pointless) discussion about ASP vs. PHP. One of
> the arguments against using PHP was that there is only a single namespace.
> Uhm, that took the wind out of my sail as I have no clue what a namespace is
> and why having only one is really bad.
>
> Anyone can explain that to me in laymen terms?
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
URL: http://blog.bisna.com
S?o Carlos - SP/Brazil

From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Thu Jan 10 13:21:28 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:21:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <47866228.7090100@tgaconnect.com>

David Krings wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I got sucked into a (probably pointless) discussion about ASP vs. PHP. 
> One of the arguments against using PHP was that there is only a single 
> namespace. Uhm, that took the wind out of my sail as I have no clue what 
> a namespace is and why having only one is really bad.
> 
> Anyone can explain that to me in laymen terms?

The meaning of an identifier, such as a variable or a function name,
can depend on where it is mentioned in the program.

(for an example about variables see:
http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.variables.scope.php)

Sometimes it is difficult for a language's compiler or interpreter
to distinguish between two identifiers with the same name.
In other words, when two identifiers are in the same scope and have
the same name, they clash.

Some computer languages have keywords which produce namespaces.
Differing namespaces can be used to resolve (i.e. distinguish)
variables, functions, etc. which have the same name.

(see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namespace_%28programming%29
for more)

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From ioplex at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 13:49:38 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:49:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing large files to client efficiently
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801101049n6b9403a1q6d09b0a730ab886@mail.gmail.com>

What is the most efficient way to write large files to the client?

I want to control download access to uploaded files (and dodge all the
security issues associated with allowing access to uploaded files) so
I can't just serve it as static content - it has to be under script
control.

fpassthru?

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 14:55:43 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:55:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing large files to client efficiently
In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860801101049n6b9403a1q6d09b0a730ab886@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801101049n6b9403a1q6d09b0a730ab886@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801101155m564ae78foe57b8957eaa28c71@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 10, 2008 1:49 PM, Michael B Allen <ioplex at gmail.com> wrote:
> What is the most efficient way to write large files to the client?
>
> fpassthru?
>
> Mike

Yes.  Make sure you are not output buffering, and don't forget to call
session_write_close() before running fpassthru() if you are using
php's default session handler.

I have done this with fpassthru, and i have also used 302 redirects to
hashed file names.  The latter isn't as secure but it is more flexible
and faster.  Just as a heads up, fpassthru is going to be a problem if
you have mutiple servers.

Regards,
John Campbell


From ioplex at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 15:16:26 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:16:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing large files to client efficiently
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801101155m564ae78foe57b8957eaa28c71@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801101049n6b9403a1q6d09b0a730ab886@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f0676b40801101155m564ae78foe57b8957eaa28c71@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801101216g1805fdf2ma7a8d09b6c478142@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/10/08, John Campbell <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 10, 2008 1:49 PM, Michael B Allen <ioplex at gmail.com> wrote:
> > What is the most efficient way to write large files to the client?
> >
> > fpassthru?
> >
> > Mike
>
> Yes.  Make sure you are not output buffering, and don't forget to call
> session_write_close() before running fpassthru() if you are using
> php's default session handler.
>
> I have done this with fpassthru, and i have also used 302 redirects to
> hashed file names.  The latter isn't as secure but it is more flexible
> and faster.  Just as a heads up, fpassthru is going to be a problem if
> you have mutiple servers.

Hi John,

Excellent answer.

In your experience, how much slower is fpassthru compared to serving
static content? Is it twice as slow?

Also, regarding fpassthru on multiple servers, do you mean that with
static files you can redirect to other servers and distribute the
load?

I'm starting to think I should do the hashed filename redirect thing.

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 16:14:47 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:14:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing large files to client efficiently
In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860801101216g1805fdf2ma7a8d09b6c478142@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801101049n6b9403a1q6d09b0a730ab886@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f0676b40801101155m564ae78foe57b8957eaa28c71@mail.gmail.com>
	<78c6bd860801101216g1805fdf2ma7a8d09b6c478142@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801101314k4ed7743k4b682db9f03adce9@mail.gmail.com>

> In your experience, how much slower is fpassthru compared to serving
> static content? Is it twice as slow?

Well, I just tested it and it doesn't appear to make much difference.
You have to fire up the php interpreter either way.   I am running
PHP+APC, and I see 4.2 ms for both requests with the redirect method
and 4.7ms per request using fpassthru.  (I am testing with ab on the
local machine).

Bandwidth and storage will bite you first anyway.

> Also, regarding fpassthru on multiple servers, do you mean that with
> static files you can redirect to other servers and distribute the
> load?

Yeah that was what I was getting at.  You have a lot of options, but I
recommend designing your system so it separates the "what" from the
"where".  E.g. you get a request for an asset, determine all of the
places it lives (Amazon S3, Akamai, local server, etc) and then
redirect the request to the best location.  How you design the
security is up to you.  Hashed file names are one way to go.  Some
sort of token system would be another option if you need more
security.

Regards,
John Campbell


From ioplex at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 17:44:54 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:44:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Writing large files to client efficiently
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801101314k4ed7743k4b682db9f03adce9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801101049n6b9403a1q6d09b0a730ab886@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f0676b40801101155m564ae78foe57b8957eaa28c71@mail.gmail.com>
	<78c6bd860801101216g1805fdf2ma7a8d09b6c478142@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f0676b40801101314k4ed7743k4b682db9f03adce9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801101444v5bbaa0aay4c8c5465ca56e48a@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/10/08, John Campbell <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > In your experience, how much slower is fpassthru compared to serving
> > static content? Is it twice as slow?
>
> Well, I just tested it and it doesn't appear to make much difference.
> You have to fire up the php interpreter either way.   I am running
> PHP+APC, and I see 4.2 ms for both requests with the redirect method
> and 4.7ms per request using fpassthru.  (I am testing with ab on the
> local machine).
>
> Bandwidth and storage will bite you first anyway.
>
> > Also, regarding fpassthru on multiple servers, do you mean that with
> > static files you can redirect to other servers and distribute the
> > load?
>
> Yeah that was what I was getting at.  You have a lot of options, but I
> recommend designing your system so it separates the "what" from the
> "where".

Sound advice.

Thanks,
Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com  Thu Jan 10 19:00:28 2008
From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:00:28 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
Message-ID: <1200009628.12442@coral.he.net>

I think this has something to do with variable scope?  Such as, in ASP 
(like VB), if you declare a variable i within a function, it loses 
scope after the function executes and you can have another variable i 
outside a function which stays in scope (this is NOT necessarily a 
good thing, either).

Whereas in PHP, if you declare $i, no matter where, it will be in 
scope throughout your entire script....right?

As someone who used ASP for many, many years....after using PHP for 5 
months I can pretty much state that, for me at least, it's NOT better 
than PHP, and it was a hell of a lot less fun to write.

--Kristina

> Hi!
> 
> I got sucked into a (probably pointless) discussion about ASP vs. 
PHP. One of 
> the arguments against using PHP was that there is only a single 
namespace. 
> Uhm, that took the wind out of my sail as I have no clue what a 
namespace is 
> and why having only one is really bad.
> 
> Anyone can explain that to me in laymen terms?
> 
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 



From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Jan 10 20:07:30 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:07:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <1200009628.12442@coral.he.net>
References: <1200009628.12442@coral.he.net>
Message-ID: <4786C152.5040204@gmx.net>

Kristina Anderson wrote:
> I think this has something to do with variable scope?  Such as, in ASP 
> (like VB), if you declare a variable i within a function, it loses 
> scope after the function executes and you can have another variable i 
> outside a function which stays in scope (this is NOT necessarily a 
> good thing, either).
> 
> Whereas in PHP, if you declare $i, no matter where, it will be in 
> scope throughout your entire script....right?

I don't think that is the case. That is how it used to be in the PHP 4.x 
installations that I've used early one, but with switching to PHP5 that went 
away (and all my function calls failed). I think it is possible to configure 
it either way in PHP4 or PHP5

> As someone who used ASP for many, many years....after using PHP for 5 
> months I can pretty much state that, for me at least, it's NOT better 
> than PHP, and it was a hell of a lot less fun to write.

I've never tried ASP, but I work with an application that uses 
ASP/NET/IIS/MSSQL and not only is it a royal pain the you know where to 
install, the entire application is dog slow on a P4-3GHz with 1GB RAM. I get 
better performance with PHP on my P3-1GHz while pulling everything through the 
debugger and that with less RAM.


Thanks also for all the other very informative explanations of namespace. I 
really don't see the single namespace to be an issue. When there are multiple 
namespaces I have to keep track of them as well. With multiple namespaces 
everyone starts calling their functions ini() and A(), because they are too 
lazy to type longer names. But then again, I don't really see the reason why 
one needs objects either....

David


From urb at e-government.com  Thu Jan 10 20:32:54 2008
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 20:32:54 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
	<47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080110203219.029c12e0@e-government.com>

Thanks to all who responded to my request for suggestions on
WYSIWYG editors.

Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
609-294-0320  800-204-9545
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.




From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Thu Jan 10 21:30:37 2008
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:30:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <4786C152.5040204@gmx.net>
References: <1200009628.12442@coral.he.net> <4786C152.5040204@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <649AE559-CE09-4930-A8D0-07EE7A284467@jonbaer.com>

Its also good to scan the last php-internals list and grep for  
Namespaces discussions as things can automagically change on you :-)

http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=118355320225178&w=2
http://marc.info/?l=php-internals&m=119308858512331&w=2

- Jon

On Jan 10, 2008, at 8:07 PM, David Krings wrote:

> Kristina Anderson wrote:
>> I think this has something to do with variable scope?  Such as, in  
>> ASP (like VB), if you declare a variable i within a function, it  
>> loses scope after the function executes and you can have another  
>> variable i outside a function which stays in scope (this is NOT  
>> necessarily a good thing, either).
>> Whereas in PHP, if you declare $i, no matter where, it will be in  
>> scope throughout your entire script....right?
>
> I don't think that is the case. That is how it used to be in the PHP  
> 4.x installations that I've used early one, but with switching to  
> PHP5 that went away (and all my function calls failed). I think it  
> is possible to configure it either way in PHP4 or PHP5
>
>> As someone who used ASP for many, many years....after using PHP for  
>> 5 months I can pretty much state that, for me at least, it's NOT  
>> better than PHP, and it was a hell of a lot less fun to write.
>
> I've never tried ASP, but I work with an application that uses ASP/ 
> NET/IIS/MSSQL and not only is it a royal pain the you know where to  
> install, the entire application is dog slow on a P4-3GHz with 1GB  
> RAM. I get better performance with PHP on my P3-1GHz while pulling  
> everything through the debugger and that with less RAM.
>
>
> Thanks also for all the other very informative explanations of  
> namespace. I really don't see the single namespace to be an issue.  
> When there are multiple namespaces I have to keep track of them as  
> well. With multiple namespaces everyone starts calling their  
> functions ini() and A(), because they are too lazy to type longer  
> names. But then again, I don't really see the reason why one needs  
> objects either....
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 21:45:23 2008
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:45:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Issue
Message-ID: <a9caffe50801101845m4b0fb24fx788bae4aa26c9771@mail.gmail.com>

I installed MySQL 5 on a machine, and had nothing but problems with
it. So I rolled back to MySQL 4.0.24. Now I can't create new databases
through PHPMyAdmin. When I look at the PHPMyAdmin home page, it says
I'm connected to:

MySQL 4.0.24-nt running on localhost as ODBC at localhost

It should be 'root at localhost.' How do I change that?

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From ramons at gmx.net  Thu Jan 10 22:00:20 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:00:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Issue
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50801101845m4b0fb24fx788bae4aa26c9771@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50801101845m4b0fb24fx788bae4aa26c9771@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4786DBC4.6@gmx.net>

Randal Rust wrote:
> I installed MySQL 5 on a machine, and had nothing but problems with
> it. So I rolled back to MySQL 4.0.24. Now I can't create new databases
> through PHPMyAdmin. When I look at the PHPMyAdmin home page, it says
> I'm connected to:
> 
> MySQL 4.0.24-nt running on localhost as ODBC at localhost
> 
> It should be 'root at localhost.' How do I change that?

I gave up on phpMyAdmin a long time ago and use the tools from the MySQL 
website. I'd give those a try and see if that gives you more command.

David


From randalrust at gmail.com  Thu Jan 10 22:04:27 2008
From: randalrust at gmail.com (Randal Rust)
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:04:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL Issue
In-Reply-To: <4786DBC4.6@gmx.net>
References: <a9caffe50801101845m4b0fb24fx788bae4aa26c9771@mail.gmail.com>
	<4786DBC4.6@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <a9caffe50801101904i7e974b19i57fae5437c1c7bbf@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 10, 2008 10:00 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:

> I gave up on phpMyAdmin a long time ago and use the tools from the MySQL
> website. I'd give those a try and see if that gives you more command.

i figured it out. it was something really dumb. i didn't have the
right username/password in the config file.

-- 
Randal Rust
R.Squared Communications
www.r2communications.com


From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Fri Jan 11 08:09:43 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:09:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Joomla and SE Friendly URLs
In-Reply-To: <a9caffe50801100509j17bf849ar2f01c40adbaad962@mail.gmail.com>
References: <a9caffe50801100509j17bf849ar2f01c40adbaad962@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47876A97.1080404@beezifies.com>

Well, first off as the local organizer for the NYC Joomla User Group, 
I'd point you over to the Joomla mailling list also sponsored and 
maintained by NYPHP(you can subscribe to it from their site).

As to your question, SEF in the Joomla world works in 1 of 2 ways:

1) The ugly way.  Using native Joomla SEF, all it does is convert 
keywords to the url, so 
http://www.mysite.com/index.php?options=content&task=view&id=5 becomees
http://www.mysite.com/options/content/task/view/id/5

2) The "smart" way = you use a 3rd party Joomla component that can 
create pretty urls.
These components typically have a default way of doing things. They also 
are extendable for each component, a component author or consultant 
working on the project can create a specific file(for example, if your 
component is called books, the file would be sef_books.php) and that 
file implements a class with 2 functions.  One function takes a Joomla 
url and prettifies it, and the other takes a pretty url and Joomlafies 
it.  They generally do this is a very simple way, they are called with 
the url, and return an array to prettify it.  The SEF component than 
pops the array and builds the url.
For example:
books
showbook
php_hacks

Would become: http://www.mydomain.com/books/showbook/php_hacks.html

This means as a /user/ your at the mercy of what configuration options 
were created by the author of the sef class for the components your 
using used.

As a developer, you are free to edit that very very small file and 
completely rearrange the ordering to suit your fancy.



From ken at secdat.com  Fri Jan 11 09:11:37 2008
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:11:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>

Namespaces are an organizing mechanism, usually associated with classes.

Think:   Class::functions   as   Namespaces::classes

So let's begin with functions.  David Krings writes a nifty function 
called "ValidateEmail()" and puts in a library.  Then Ken Downs writes 
the same function in a different library.  Somebody tries to use both 
libraries but gets an error on a naming collision.  If each of us put 
our functions into classes, and the classes had different names, then 
the collision would be avoided.

But what if we have the same name for our classes, such as 
"EmailUtils?"  You have a class called EmailUtils and so do I, and 
somebody wants to use a little of yours and little of mine, but there is 
a naming collision.  Namespaces can solve that.  In this example, my 
classes might all be in a "kendowns" namespace and yours might be in a 
"davidkrings" namespace. 

For a more rigorous look, take a look at Java and how its functions are 
organized.  All functions are organized into classes and the classes are 
grouped together into namespaces.  If Java needs a function to trim 
spaces off the right side of a string, they won't call it "RTrim()", 
they will call it: string.valueChangers.Reducers.Trimmers.Right()

I'm sure a disciple of object orientation would point out all of the 
flaws in the above explanation, but it does portray the practical reality.



David Krings wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I got sucked into a (probably pointless) discussion about ASP vs. PHP. 
> One of the arguments against using PHP was that there is only a single 
> namespace. Uhm, that took the wind out of my sail as I have no clue 
> what a namespace is and why having only one is really bad.
>
> Anyone can explain that to me in laymen terms?
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010



From ramons at gmx.net  Fri Jan 11 10:03:24 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:03:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net> <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <4787853C.1010305@gmx.net>

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> Namespaces are an organizing mechanism, usually associated with classes.
> 
> Think:   Class::functions   as   Namespaces::classes
> 
> So let's begin with functions.  David Krings writes a nifty function 
> called "ValidateEmail()" and puts in a library.  Then Ken Downs writes 
> the same function in a different library.  Somebody tries to use both 
> libraries but gets an error on a naming collision.  If each of us put 
> our functions into classes, and the classes had different names, then 
> the collision would be avoided.
> 
> But what if we have the same name for our classes, such as 
> "EmailUtils?"  You have a class called EmailUtils and so do I, and 
> somebody wants to use a little of yours and little of mine, but there is 
> a naming collision.  Namespaces can solve that.  In this example, my 
> classes might all be in a "kendowns" namespace and yours might be in a 
> "davidkrings" namespace.
> For a more rigorous look, take a look at Java and how its functions are 
> organized.  All functions are organized into classes and the classes are 
> grouped together into namespaces.  If Java needs a function to trim 
> spaces off the right side of a string, they won't call it "RTrim()", 
> they will call it: string.valueChangers.Reducers.Trimmers.Right()
> 
> I'm sure a disciple of object orientation would point out all of the 
> flaws in the above explanation, but it does portray the practical reality.


Thank you for the great explanation. It triggers yet another question: What to 
do if two namespaces are identical? Doesn't that end up to be the same 
problem? And if one changes the namespace for one, doesn't that require to 
change code referencing functions and classes from that namespace as well? 
Sure, it makes collisions less likely, but it really doesn't fix the ultimate 
problem, does it?

David


From tonyf at buffnet.net  Fri Jan 11 10:39:46 2008
From: tonyf at buffnet.net (Tony Furnivall)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:39:46 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Problem with MySQL UPDATE syntax
Message-ID: <E1JDLqK-00046a-00@pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi!

I'm having a problem with the UPDATE syntax for MySQL

(aside - I hate products that tell me I have a syntax problem, but 
don't tell me what it is - and then suggest that I go RTFM  which is 
equally uninformative:-()

I'm replacing the entire set of fields, WHERE a condition exists for 
some of the fields, ie

UPDATE table_name SET field1 = ' value1', field2 = ' value2', field3 
= ' value3, field4 = ' value4'  WHERE field1 = ' value1' AND field2 = 
' value2';

MySQL says that I have error 1064 'near WHERE field1 = ' value1' AND 
field2 = ' value2'

but it doesn't say what therror is (grrr!)

My questions:

My question is what is the appropriate way to expand the syntactic 
construct of "where_condition", which is not otherwise explained!

Help!

Tony


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1218 - Release Date: 1/10/2008 1:32 PM




From yitzchas at touro.edu  Fri Jan 11 10:33:42 2008
From: yitzchas at touro.edu (Yitzchak Schaffer)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:33:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Problem with MySQL UPDATE syntax
In-Reply-To: <E1JDLqK-00046a-00@pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1JDLqK-00046a-00@pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47878C56.2020705@touro.edu>

Did you copy that query directly?  You're missing a quote to close value3.

Yitzchak Schaffer
Systems Librarian
Touro College Libraries
33 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10010
Tel (212) 463-0400 x230
Fax (212) 627-3197
yitzchas at touro.edu


Tony Furnivall wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm having a problem with the UPDATE syntax for MySQL
>
> (aside - I hate products that tell me I have a syntax problem, but 
> don't tell me what it is - and then suggest that I go RTFM  which is 
> equally uninformative:-()
>
> I'm replacing the entire set of fields, WHERE a condition exists for 
> some of the fields, ie
>
> UPDATE table_name SET field1 = ' value1', field2 = ' value2', field3 = 
> ' value3, field4 = ' value4'  WHERE field1 = ' value1' AND field2 = ' 
> value2';
>
> MySQL says that I have error 1064 'near WHERE field1 = ' value1' AND 
> field2 = ' value2'
>
> but it doesn't say what therror is (grrr!)
>
> My questions:
>
> My question is what is the appropriate way to expand the syntactic 
> construct of "where_condition", which is not otherwise explained!
>
> Help!
>
> Tony
>
>
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From rotsen at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 10:53:01 2008
From: rotsen at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?N=E9stor?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:53:01 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080110203219.029c12e0@e-government.com>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com>
	<C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com>
	<47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080110203219.029c12e0@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <a304e2d60801110753v39ad613dy5a5b29a29e21ac4d@mail.gmail.com>

Urb,

Perhaps you can comeback and gives us recap of what you find out and
what you have decide to go with and why.

:-)

On Jan 10, 2008 5:32 PM, Urb LeJeune <urb at e-government.com> wrote:

> Thanks to all who responded to my request for suggestions on
> WYSIWYG editors.
>
> Urb
>
> Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
> E-Government.com
> 609-294-0320  800-204-9545
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From ken at secdat.com  Fri Jan 11 11:06:20 2008
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:06:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <4787853C.1010305@gmx.net>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net> <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>

David Krings wrote:
>
>
> Thank you for the great explanation. It triggers yet another question: 
> What to do if two namespaces are identical? Doesn't that end up to be 
> the same problem? And if one changes the namespace for one, doesn't 
> that require to change code referencing functions and classes from 
> that namespace as well? Sure, it makes collisions less likely, but it 
> really doesn't fix the ultimate problem, does it?

Yes, it's true that the ultimate problem of collisions is not solved.  
That would require world-wide coordination of all programmers. 

>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010



From jim at bizcomputinginc.com  Fri Jan 11 11:23:43 2008
From: jim at bizcomputinginc.com (Jim Hendricks)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:23:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
	<47877919.2080807@secdat.com>	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net>
	<478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>

When Palm opened up the platform for 3rd party programming, they created 
a registration page for the database type id's.  This allowed for global 
registration which would eliminate namespace collissions so long as 
programmers registered the id's they were using prior to distro.

Don't know how effective it was, but thot it was a good idea.

How crazy would it be if PHP had namespaces and a namespace registration.

Kenneth Downs wrote:
> David Krings wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the great explanation. It triggers yet another 
>> question: What to do if two namespaces are identical? Doesn't that 
>> end up to be the same problem? And if one changes the namespace for 
>> one, doesn't that require to change code referencing functions and 
>> classes from that namespace as well? Sure, it makes collisions less 
>> likely, but it really doesn't fix the ultimate problem, does it?
>
> Yes, it's true that the ultimate problem of collisions is not solved.  
> That would require world-wide coordination of all programmers.
>>
>> David
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>



From tonyf at buffnet.net  Fri Jan 11 11:34:03 2008
From: tonyf at buffnet.net (Tony Furnivall)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 10:34:03 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Problem with MySQL UPDATE syntax - Update
Message-ID: <E1JDMgt-0004Bd-00@pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Yitzchak  suggested adding a quote to delimit a value - and it turns 
out the solution was equally trivial.

I'm using a whole load of copied lines to build the query string, and 
each one (one/field) had a comma at the end. I didn't notice it, 
buried in the clutter, until I started adding a \n to each line. 
Then, of course it stood out like a sore thumb on my trace.

Certainly my fault - but the gripe about the extremely useless syntax 
message stands!

Thanks, as before, for the incredible support offered by this group!

Tony


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.0/1218 - Release Date: 1/10/2008 1:32 PM




From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 11:29:00 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:29:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net> <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net> <478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
	<4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801110829y5c5ea9dcq5dcba13372a77173@mail.gmail.com>

UDDI is trying to do the same thing (with limited success, I've only
looked at their Web Services registration)... check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Description_Discovery_and_Integration

Additionally, if you'd like to release software that won't have a
namespace conflict, purchase a domain and use it as the opening
namespace for all you software, ala:

As an example, if I own www.jakemcgraw.com, I release software under
the namespace:

com.jakemcgraw.*
com.jakemcgraw.SuperDatabaseDriver.ConnectionClass

- jake

On Jan 11, 2008 11:23 AM, Jim Hendricks <jim at bizcomputinginc.com> wrote:
> When Palm opened up the platform for 3rd party programming, they created
> a registration page for the database type id's.  This allowed for global
> registration which would eliminate namespace collissions so long as
> programmers registered the id's they were using prior to distro.
>
> Don't know how effective it was, but thot it was a good idea.
>
> How crazy would it be if PHP had namespaces and a namespace registration.
>
>
> Kenneth Downs wrote:
> > David Krings wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you for the great explanation. It triggers yet another
> >> question: What to do if two namespaces are identical? Doesn't that
> >> end up to be the same problem? And if one changes the namespace for
> >> one, doesn't that require to change code referencing functions and
> >> classes from that namespace as well? Sure, it makes collisions less
> >> likely, but it really doesn't fix the ultimate problem, does it?
> >
> > Yes, it's true that the ultimate problem of collisions is not solved.
> > That would require world-wide coordination of all programmers.
> >>
> >> David
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> >> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >>
> >> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> >> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >>
> >> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> >> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From ramons at gmx.net  Fri Jan 11 11:39:15 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:39:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] re: Problem with MySQL UPDATE syntax - Update
In-Reply-To: <E1JDMgt-0004Bd-00@pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1JDMgt-0004Bd-00@pop-satin.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <47879BB3.9020004@gmx.net>

Tony Furnivall wrote:
> Certainly my fault - but the gripe about the extremely useless syntax 
> message stands!
I agree that those error messages are really worth improving. MySQL knows 
exactly why it failed, it may not be able to determine the exact spot, but 
missing quotes or a mistyped command are probably the most common query syntax 
errors. With a little bit of effort the MySQL developers could put better 
error messages in.
I yet have to find an application that has decent error handling/messaging. 
Nobody wants to spend time and effort on it. It doesn't add functionality and 
developer arrogance leads to putting this on the shoulders of support to deal 
with. Then again, MySQL could just give out some even less useless error 
message. I once ran into a problem with MS Access and the error message text 
was "There is no message for this error."

David


From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 12:08:05 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:08:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net> <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net> <478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801110908o18d742ceg22d3b6d10e9af64d@mail.gmail.com>

Namespaces are supposed to be analogous to folders in the file system.
 Folders are how we prevent file name collisions, and namespaces are
how we prevent function/classname collisions.  If you have a bunch of
files that might have the same names as an existing file, then you
just create a new folder.  If you are importing code that may have
function/class collision, then you import it into a different
namespace.  Unfortunately I think the php devs don't think of
namespaces in the same way, and it looks like the 5.3 namespace
implementation will lack the ability to rename the namespace and
relies on everyone using a unique namespace.  The domain convention is
okay, but I would much rather be able to do something like:

include 'dkSuperClass.php' into namespace 'foo'

It looks like the php devs are going the Java route, which ain't great
because it relies on every library being changed which will never
happen for compatibility reasons.

I would much rather have a tool that lets me solve collisions today
than a tool that requires libraries to be rewritten and agreement on a
naming convention in order for it to work.

</rant>

Regards,
John Campbell


From christiandailey at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 12:45:28 2008
From: christiandailey at gmail.com (Tod Dailey)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:45:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
Message-ID: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>

The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile has
recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on both
sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my question still
hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.

When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that the
given process failed or succeeded, I declare the Boolean as a variable at
the top of the function. I feel that this makes the code easier to read
whenever/if-ever I need to come back and add further logic conditions to
that function. When I come back to the function, I have a short list of
accept by exception where I more-or-less just need to find the point that I
return true to understand the function. Verse inline returns, such as "if
($condition !== true) return false;" that builds a list of failure by
exception. It may just be in my head that the first method is easier to
read, but that's why I'm asking for input/options. Here are two examples.
They should both return the same value, but by different means. Please don't
be side-track by the over-all quality of code/lack-thereof. Thanks!


public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
    $result = false;

    $yourObj = new SomeObject;

    $result = $yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id);
    if ($result === true) {as
        $restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestictedItems();

        if (is_array($restrictedItems)) {
            $result =
$yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus);

            if ($result === true) {
                $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
                $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
                $result = true;
            }
        } else {
            $result = false;
        }
    }
}


public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
    $yourObj = new SomeObject;

    if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id) !== true) {
        return false;
    }

    if (!is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems())) {
        return false;
    }

    if ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus) !== true)
{
        return false;
    }

    $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
    $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
    return true;
}

Once again, this is pseudo-code...
Christian
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From ramons at gmx.net  Fri Jan 11 13:02:43 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:02:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4787AF43.5030409@gmx.net>

Tod Dailey wrote:
> The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile has 
> recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on both 
> sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my question 
> still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.

I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the end?) 
where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top, including 
booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that function and set the 
flag accordingly and then return the result at the very end of the function
  I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct return of the 
state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any other way, I 
find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate $result before 
retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as it doesn't 
have to go through who knows how many lines of code first before it reaches 
the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function the function 
exits and sends back the return values.

I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes sense. It 
would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either version that you 
have heard so far.

David


From christiandailey at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 13:23:15 2008
From: christiandailey at gmail.com (Tod Dailey)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:23:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <4787AF43.5030409@gmx.net>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<4787AF43.5030409@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <6232fa7e0801111023u156b0297w7fbfa63dd1b5f4fa@mail.gmail.com>

That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've received
weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a left-over practice
from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with PHP (??). I've also heard
the argument that returning inline values is faster, and easier to see
exactly what is being returned. That pretty much sums up what I've heard
so-far.

Christian


On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:

> Tod Dailey wrote:
> > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile has
> > recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on both
> > sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my question
> > still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>
> I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the end?)
> where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
> including
> booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that function and set
> the
> flag accordingly and then return the result at the very end of the
> function
>  I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct return of
> the
> state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any other way,
> I
> find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate $result
> before
> retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as it
> doesn't
> have to go through who knows how many lines of code first before it
> reaches
> the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function the
> function
> exits and sends back the return values.
>
> I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes
> sense. It
> would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either version that you
> have heard so far.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Fri Jan 11 13:37:51 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:37:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <6232fa7e0801111023u156b0297w7fbfa63dd1b5f4fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>	<4787AF43.5030409@gmx.net>
	<6232fa7e0801111023u156b0297w7fbfa63dd1b5f4fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4787B77F.1090601@projectskyline.com>

Hello,

Word, I immediately feel version 2 is easier to understand. Yeah you 
can't check the result, but you could step
through with a debugger and then check the *result*

$result just adds extra complexity; no need to copy the value and then 
return it. Just return it at the first point you can return it.
In something more complex, maybe having 50 places you could exit that 
function, in that case, save the result
and do a
 return $result;
at the bottom. That's fine, and makes sense.

I can't comment on speed but I'd guess both these methods run pretty 
close to the same speed.
I would never waste time optimizing something like this (unless I knew 
it was causing a bottleneck).

- Ben

Tod Dailey wrote:
> That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've 
> received weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a 
> left-over practice from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with 
> PHP (??). I've also heard the argument that returning inline values is 
> faster, and easier to see exactly what is being returned. That pretty 
> much sums up what I've heard so-far.
>
> Christian
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net 
> <mailto:ramons at gmx.net>> wrote:
>
>     Tod Dailey wrote:
>     > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for
>     awhile has
>     > recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments
>     on both
>     > sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my
>     question
>     > still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>
>     I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at
>     the end?)
>     where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
>     including
>     booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that function
>     and set the
>     flag accordingly and then return the result at the very end of the
>     function
>      I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct
>     return of the
>     state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any
>     other way, I
>     find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate
>     $result before
>     retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as
>     it doesn't
>     have to go through who knows how many lines of code first before
>     it reaches
>     the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function
>     the function
>     exits and sends back the return values.
>
>     I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2
>     makes sense. It
>     would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either version
>     that you
>     have heard so far.
>
>     David
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From ioplex at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 13:56:35 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:56:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801111056h2af89e00tac0fe4e0fc2c7c6a@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/08, Tod Dailey <christiandailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that the
> given process failed or <snip> Verse inline returns, such as "if
> ($condition !== true) return false;" that builds a list of failure by
> exception.

Hi Tod,

I don't think it matters that much. I would rather spend time thinking
about the overall design. Just pick one technique that makes you happy
and stick to it.

This is how I would write it:

public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
    $yourObj = new SomeObject;

    if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id)) {
        if (is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems())) {
            if ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus)) {
                $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
                $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
                return true;
            }
        }
    }

    return false;
}

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From brian at realm3.com  Fri Jan 11 14:11:58 2008
From: brian at realm3.com (Brian D.)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:11:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860801111056h2af89e00tac0fe4e0fc2c7c6a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<78c6bd860801111056h2af89e00tac0fe4e0fc2c7c6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c7c53eda0801111111w5a346bd3k51624e480c998d69@mail.gmail.com>

I actually would go with:

<?php
public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
        $yourObj = new SomeObject;

        if (
                $yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id)
                && is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems()
                && $yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus)
        ) {
                $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
                $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
                return true;
        }

   return false;
}

Since the && operator is executed in the order you want, extra if()s
are unnecessary.

I agree with Allen, though, that it doesn't matter so much as just
being consistent. Much of it is personal preference or company policy:
basically who decides what is more readable.

- Brian D.

On Jan 11, 2008 1:56 PM, Michael B Allen <ioplex at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/11/08, Tod Dailey <christiandailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that the
> > given process failed or <snip> Verse inline returns, such as "if
> > ($condition !== true) return false;" that builds a list of failure by
> > exception.
>

[snip]


-- 
realm3 web applications [realm3.com]
freelance consulting, application development
(423) 506-0349


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Fri Jan 11 15:55:49 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:55:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080111205549.GA15748@panix.com>

I like returning as soon as possible.  This clarifies exactly what's 
happening.  Otherwise you need to read through the whole function.  Plus 
it dramatically cuts down on the amount of nesting.

I also try to put the short code bits at the top so you can read it right 
away and then move on to the big block.  For example, you have this 
block:

>         if (is_array($restrictedItems)) {
>             $result = $yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(...);
> 
>             if ($result === true) {
>                 $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>                 $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>                 $result = true;
>             }
>         } else {
>             $result = false;
>         }

which I'd change the initial test to negate the is_array() test:

         if (!is_array($restrictedItems)) {
             $result = false;
         } else {
             $result = $yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(...);
 
             if ($result === true) {
                 $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
                 $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
                 $result = true;
             }
         }

Enjoy,

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From ioplex at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 17:17:18 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:17:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <c7c53eda0801111111w5a346bd3k51624e480c998d69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<78c6bd860801111056h2af89e00tac0fe4e0fc2c7c6a@mail.gmail.com>
	<c7c53eda0801111111w5a346bd3k51624e480c998d69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801111417p6ae8b871vc1a082889aa25d15@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/08, Brian D. <brian at realm3.com> wrote:
>         if (
>                 $yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id)
>                 && is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems()
>                 && $yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus)
>         ) {
>                 $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>                 $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>                 return true;
>         }
>
>    return false;
> }
>
> Since the && operator is executed in the order you want, extra if()s
> are unnecessary.

I see three problems with this:

1) Eliminating a few if()s does not make the code better and in this
case I think it actually makes it more difficult to understand at a
glance.

2) If you have a new block for each successful step, any "undo" code
will fit gracefully:

public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
   $yourObj = new SomeObject;

   if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id)) {
       if (is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems())) {
           if ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus)) {
               $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
               $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
               return true;
           }
           // undo something from getUnrestrictedItems()
       }
       // undo sometihng from loadObjectByRecordId()
   }

   return false;
}

3) If you're trying to debug using a few log statements you might have
to breakup the condition.

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From ioplex at gmail.com  Fri Jan 11 17:23:35 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:23:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <20080111205549.GA15748@panix.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080111205549.GA15748@panix.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801111423o41c28878hbcd6dbb268ded0fd@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/11/08, Daniel Convissor <danielc at analysisandsolutions.com> wrote:
> I like returning as soon as possible.  This clarifies exactly what's
> happening.  Otherwise you need to read through the whole function.  Plus
> it dramatically cuts down on the amount of nesting.

I think the nesting helps you understand the code. You know the more
indented you are the deeper the success of the overall operation. If
the nesting get's to it's easy move that block into a new function
without thinking about the logic.

Regarding the number of returns, it's better to minimize the number of
exit points because it simplifies the function contract. If you have
to modify the code later, there are fewer exit points to consider.

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From jonathanw at amoeba.co.za  Fri Jan 11 17:44:35 2008
From: jonathanw at amoeba.co.za (Jonathan Wagener)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 00:44:35 +0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Whats the difference between an apostrophe and a
	quotation
In-Reply-To: <A5E87A2616AD460BABA62CC0B9F799DF@ABS.Office>
References: <A5E87A2616AD460BABA62CC0B9F799DF@ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702AA0C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>

Hi, whats the difference between an apostrophe and a quotation in php?


Jonathan Wagener
     Web Developer / Architect
     Amoeba Business Solutions
     Cell:    +27 72 928 0513
     Office: +27 21 785 1424
     Web:    www.amoeba.co.za
     Blog:   www.espresso-online.info 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
Sent: 11 January 2008 21:16
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Subject: talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22

Send talk mailing list submissions to
	talk at lists.nyphp.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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	talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of talk digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Namespaces (John Campbell)
   2. Question about explicit returns (Tod Dailey)
   3. Re: Question about explicit returns (David Krings)
   4. Re: Question about explicit returns (Tod Dailey)
   5. Re: Question about explicit returns (Ben Sgro)
   6. Re: Question about explicit returns (Michael B Allen)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:08:05 -0500
From: "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID:
	<8f0676b40801110908o18d742ceg22d3b6d10e9af64d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Namespaces are supposed to be analogous to folders in the file system.
 Folders are how we prevent file name collisions, and namespaces are how
we prevent function/classname collisions.  If you have a bunch of files
that might have the same names as an existing file, then you just create
a new folder.  If you are importing code that may have function/class
collision, then you import it into a different namespace.  Unfortunately
I think the php devs don't think of namespaces in the same way, and it
looks like the 5.3 namespace implementation will lack the ability to
rename the namespace and relies on everyone using a unique namespace.
The domain convention is okay, but I would much rather be able to do
something like:

include 'dkSuperClass.php' into namespace 'foo'

It looks like the php devs are going the Java route, which ain't great
because it relies on every library being changed which will never happen
for compatibility reasons.

I would much rather have a tool that lets me solve collisions today than
a tool that requires libraries to be rewritten and agreement on a naming
convention in order for it to work.

</rant>

Regards,
John Campbell


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:45:28 -0500
From: "Tod Dailey" <christiandailey at gmail.com>
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
Message-ID:
	<6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile has
recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on both
sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my question
still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.

When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that
the given process failed or succeeded, I declare the Boolean as a
variable at the top of the function. I feel that this makes the code
easier to read whenever/if-ever I need to come back and add further
logic conditions to that function. When I come back to the function, I
have a short list of accept by exception where I more-or-less just need
to find the point that I return true to understand the function. Verse
inline returns, such as "if ($condition !== true) return false;" that
builds a list of failure by exception. It may just be in my head that
the first method is easier to read, but that's why I'm asking for
input/options. Here are two examples.
They should both return the same value, but by different means. Please
don't be side-track by the over-all quality of code/lack-thereof.
Thanks!


public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
    $result = false;

    $yourObj = new SomeObject;

    $result = $yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id);
    if ($result === true) {as
        $restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestictedItems();

        if (is_array($restrictedItems)) {
            $result =
$yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus);

            if ($result === true) {
                $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
                $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
                $result = true;
            }
        } else {
            $result = false;
        }
    }
}


public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
    $yourObj = new SomeObject;

    if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id) !== true) {
        return false;
    }

    if (!is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems()))
{
        return false;
    }

    if ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus) !==
true) {
        return false;
    }

    $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
    $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
    return true;
}

Once again, this is pseudo-code...
Christian
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:02:43 -0500
From: David Krings <ramons at gmx.net>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <4787AF43.5030409 at gmx.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Tod Dailey wrote:
> The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile 
> has recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on

> both sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my 
> question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.

I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the
end?) where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
including booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that
function and set the flag accordingly and then return the result at the
very end of the function
  I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct return
of the state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any
other way, I find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can
evaluate $result before retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is
potentially faster as it doesn't have to go through who knows how many
lines of code first before it reaches the return at the end. As soon as
a return is hit in the function the function exits and sends back the
return values.

I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes
sense. It would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either
version that you have heard so far.

David


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:23:15 -0500
From: "Tod Dailey" <christiandailey at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID:
	<6232fa7e0801111023u156b0297w7fbfa63dd1b5f4fa at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've received
weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a left-over
practice from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with PHP (??).
I've also heard the argument that returning inline values is faster, and
easier to see exactly what is being returned. That pretty much sums up
what I've heard so-far.

Christian


On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:

> Tod Dailey wrote:
> > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile

> > has recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments 
> > on both sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but 
> > my question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>
> I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the 
> end?) where I declare anything that is used in the function at the 
> top, including booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that 
> function and set the flag accordingly and then return the result at 
> the very end of the function  I see the benefits of the second version

> as there is a direct return of the state and it saves a variable. 
> Without having it tried out any other way, I find version 1 to be 
> easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate $result before retruning it, 
> can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as it doesn't have to 
> go through who knows how many lines of code first before it reaches 
> the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function the 
> function exits and sends back the return values.
>
> I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes 
> sense. It would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either 
> version that you have heard so far.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:37:51 -0500
From: Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID: <4787B77F.1090601 at projectskyline.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hello,

Word, I immediately feel version 2 is easier to understand. Yeah you
can't check the result, but you could step through with a debugger and
then check the *result*

$result just adds extra complexity; no need to copy the value and then
return it. Just return it at the first point you can return it.
In something more complex, maybe having 50 places you could exit that
function, in that case, save the result and do a  return $result; at the
bottom. That's fine, and makes sense.

I can't comment on speed but I'd guess both these methods run pretty
close to the same speed.
I would never waste time optimizing something like this (unless I knew
it was causing a bottleneck).

- Ben

Tod Dailey wrote:
> That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've 
> received weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a 
> left-over practice from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with 
> PHP (??). I've also heard the argument that returning inline values is

> faster, and easier to see exactly what is being returned. That pretty 
> much sums up what I've heard so-far.
>
> Christian
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net 
> <mailto:ramons at gmx.net>> wrote:
>
>     Tod Dailey wrote:
>     > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for
>     awhile has
>     > recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments
>     on both
>     > sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my
>     question
>     > still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>
>     I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at
>     the end?)
>     where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
>     including
>     booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that function
>     and set the
>     flag accordingly and then return the result at the very end of the
>     function
>      I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct
>     return of the
>     state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any
>     other way, I
>     find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate
>     $result before
>     retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as
>     it doesn't
>     have to go through who knows how many lines of code first before
>     it reaches
>     the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function
>     the function
>     exits and sends back the return values.
>
>     I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2
>     makes sense. It
>     would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either version
>     that you
>     have heard so far.
>
>     David
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:56:35 -0500
From: "Michael B Allen" <ioplex at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Message-ID:
	<78c6bd860801111056h2af89e00tac0fe4e0fc2c7c6a at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 1/11/08, Tod Dailey <christiandailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that

> the given process failed or <snip> Verse inline returns, such as "if 
> ($condition !== true) return false;" that builds a list of failure by 
> exception.

Hi Tod,

I don't think it matters that much. I would rather spend time thinking
about the overall design. Just pick one technique that makes you happy
and stick to it.

This is how I would write it:

public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
    $yourObj = new SomeObject;

    if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id)) {
        if (is_array($restrictedItems =
$yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems())) {
            if
($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus)) {
                $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
                $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
                return true;
            }
        }
    }

    return false;
}

--
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
talk mailing list
talk at lists.nyphp.org
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

End of talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
************************************




From ajai at bitblit.net  Fri Jan 11 17:47:43 2008
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:47:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Whats the difference between an apostrophe and a
	quotation
In-Reply-To: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702AA0C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801111747020.21162-100000@bitblit.net>

On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Jonathan Wagener wrote:

> Hi, whats the difference between an apostrophe and a quotation in php?

We have single quotes, double quotes and back quotes - which do you mean?

I would say apostrophe == single quote.


> 
> 
> Jonathan Wagener
>      Web Developer / Architect
>      Amoeba Business Solutions
>      Cell:    +27 72 928 0513
>      Office: +27 21 785 1424
>      Web:    www.amoeba.co.za
>      Blog:   www.espresso-online.info 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
> On Behalf Of talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
> Sent: 11 January 2008 21:16
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Subject: talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
> 
> Send talk mailing list submissions to
> 	talk at lists.nyphp.org
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
> "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Namespaces (John Campbell)
>    2. Question about explicit returns (Tod Dailey)
>    3. Re: Question about explicit returns (David Krings)
>    4. Re: Question about explicit returns (Tod Dailey)
>    5. Re: Question about explicit returns (Ben Sgro)
>    6. Re: Question about explicit returns (Michael B Allen)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:08:05 -0500
> From: "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<8f0676b40801110908o18d742ceg22d3b6d10e9af64d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Namespaces are supposed to be analogous to folders in the file system.
>  Folders are how we prevent file name collisions, and namespaces are how
> we prevent function/classname collisions.  If you have a bunch of files
> that might have the same names as an existing file, then you just create
> a new folder.  If you are importing code that may have function/class
> collision, then you import it into a different namespace.  Unfortunately
> I think the php devs don't think of namespaces in the same way, and it
> looks like the 5.3 namespace implementation will lack the ability to
> rename the namespace and relies on everyone using a unique namespace.
> The domain convention is okay, but I would much rather be able to do
> something like:
> 
> include 'dkSuperClass.php' into namespace 'foo'
> 
> It looks like the php devs are going the Java route, which ain't great
> because it relies on every library being changed which will never happen
> for compatibility reasons.
> 
> I would much rather have a tool that lets me solve collisions today than
> a tool that requires libraries to be rewritten and agreement on a naming
> convention in order for it to work.
> 
> </rant>
> 
> Regards,
> John Campbell
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:45:28 -0500
> From: "Tod Dailey" <christiandailey at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
> Message-ID:
> 	<6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile has
> recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on both
> sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my question
> still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
> 
> When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that
> the given process failed or succeeded, I declare the Boolean as a
> variable at the top of the function. I feel that this makes the code
> easier to read whenever/if-ever I need to come back and add further
> logic conditions to that function. When I come back to the function, I
> have a short list of accept by exception where I more-or-less just need
> to find the point that I return true to understand the function. Verse
> inline returns, such as "if ($condition !== true) return false;" that
> builds a list of failure by exception. It may just be in my head that
> the first method is easier to read, but that's why I'm asking for
> input/options. Here are two examples.
> They should both return the same value, but by different means. Please
> don't be side-track by the over-all quality of code/lack-thereof.
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
>     $result = false;
> 
>     $yourObj = new SomeObject;
> 
>     $result = $yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id);
>     if ($result === true) {as
>         $restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestictedItems();
> 
>         if (is_array($restrictedItems)) {
>             $result =
> $yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus);
> 
>             if ($result === true) {
>                 $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>                 $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>                 $result = true;
>             }
>         } else {
>             $result = false;
>         }
>     }
> }
> 
> 
> public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
>     $yourObj = new SomeObject;
> 
>     if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id) !== true) {
>         return false;
>     }
> 
>     if (!is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems()))
> {
>         return false;
>     }
> 
>     if ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus) !==
> true) {
>         return false;
>     }
> 
>     $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>     $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>     return true;
> }
> 
> Once again, this is pseudo-code...
> Christian
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20080111/d7b10f23/atta
> chment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:02:43 -0500
> From: David Krings <ramons at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID: <4787AF43.5030409 at gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Tod Dailey wrote:
> > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile 
> > has recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on
> 
> > both sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my 
> > question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
> 
> I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the
> end?) where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
> including booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that
> function and set the flag accordingly and then return the result at the
> very end of the function
>   I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct return
> of the state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any
> other way, I find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can
> evaluate $result before retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is
> potentially faster as it doesn't have to go through who knows how many
> lines of code first before it reaches the return at the end. As soon as
> a return is hit in the function the function exits and sends back the
> return values.
> 
> I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes
> sense. It would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either
> version that you have heard so far.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:23:15 -0500
> From: "Tod Dailey" <christiandailey at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<6232fa7e0801111023u156b0297w7fbfa63dd1b5f4fa at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've received
> weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a left-over
> practice from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with PHP (??).
> I've also heard the argument that returning inline values is faster, and
> easier to see exactly what is being returned. That pretty much sums up
> what I've heard so-far.
> 
> Christian
> 
> 
> On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> > Tod Dailey wrote:
> > > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile
> 
> > > has recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments 
> > > on both sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but 
> > > my question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
> >
> > I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the 
> > end?) where I declare anything that is used in the function at the 
> > top, including booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that 
> > function and set the flag accordingly and then return the result at 
> > the very end of the function  I see the benefits of the second version
> 
> > as there is a direct return of the state and it saves a variable. 
> > Without having it tried out any other way, I find version 1 to be 
> > easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate $result before retruning it, 
> > can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as it doesn't have to 
> > go through who knows how many lines of code first before it reaches 
> > the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function the 
> > function exits and sends back the return values.
> >
> > I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes 
> > sense. It would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either 
> > version that you have heard so far.
> >
> > David
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20080111/80fff8f9/atta
> chment-0001.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:37:51 -0500
> From: Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID: <4787B77F.1090601 at projectskyline.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Word, I immediately feel version 2 is easier to understand. Yeah you
> can't check the result, but you could step through with a debugger and
> then check the *result*
> 
> $result just adds extra complexity; no need to copy the value and then
> return it. Just return it at the first point you can return it.
> In something more complex, maybe having 50 places you could exit that
> function, in that case, save the result and do a  return $result; at the
> bottom. That's fine, and makes sense.
> 
> I can't comment on speed but I'd guess both these methods run pretty
> close to the same speed.
> I would never waste time optimizing something like this (unless I knew
> it was causing a bottleneck).
> 
> - Ben
> 
> Tod Dailey wrote:
> > That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've 
> > received weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a 
> > left-over practice from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with 
> > PHP (??). I've also heard the argument that returning inline values is
> 
> > faster, and easier to see exactly what is being returned. That pretty 
> > much sums up what I've heard so-far.
> >
> > Christian
> >
> >
> > On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net 
> > <mailto:ramons at gmx.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     Tod Dailey wrote:
> >     > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for
> >     awhile has
> >     > recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments
> >     on both
> >     > sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my
> >     question
> >     > still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
> >
> >     I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at
> >     the end?)
> >     where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
> >     including
> >     booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that function
> >     and set the
> >     flag accordingly and then return the result at the very end of the
> >     function
> >      I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct
> >     return of the
> >     state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any
> >     other way, I
> >     find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate
> >     $result before
> >     retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as
> >     it doesn't
> >     have to go through who knows how many lines of code first before
> >     it reaches
> >     the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function
> >     the function
> >     exits and sends back the return values.
> >
> >     I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2
> >     makes sense. It
> >     would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either version
> >     that you
> >     have heard so far.
> >
> >     David
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> >     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> >     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> >     http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> >     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> >     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:56:35 -0500
> From: "Michael B Allen" <ioplex at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<78c6bd860801111056h2af89e00tac0fe4e0fc2c7c6a at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On 1/11/08, Tod Dailey <christiandailey at gmail.com> wrote:
> > When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that
> 
> > the given process failed or <snip> Verse inline returns, such as "if 
> > ($condition !== true) return false;" that builds a list of failure by 
> > exception.
> 
> Hi Tod,
> 
> I don't think it matters that much. I would rather spend time thinking
> about the overall design. Just pick one technique that makes you happy
> and stick to it.
> 
> This is how I would write it:
> 
> public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
>     $yourObj = new SomeObject;
> 
>     if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id)) {
>         if (is_array($restrictedItems =
> $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems())) {
>             if
> ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus)) {
>                 $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>                 $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>                 return true;
>             }
>         }
>     }
> 
>     return false;
> }
> 
> --
> Michael B Allen
> PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
> http://www.ioplex.com/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> talk mailing list
> talk at lists.nyphp.org
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> End of talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
> ************************************
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 

-- 
Aj. (ajai at bitblit.net)



From dorgan at donaldorgan.com  Fri Jan 11 17:59:09 2008
From: dorgan at donaldorgan.com (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 17:59:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Whats the difference between an apostrophe and a
	quotation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801111747020.21162-100000@bitblit.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801111747020.21162-100000@bitblit.net>
Message-ID: <4787F4BD.3010907@donaldorgan.com>

Yes single quotes only look like apostrophe's in specific fonts, but 
that is what they are.

Ajai Khattri wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Jonathan Wagener wrote:
>
>   
>> Hi, whats the difference between an apostrophe and a quotation in php?
>>     
>
> We have single quotes, double quotes and back quotes - which do you mean?
>
> I would say apostrophe == single quote.
>
>
>   
>> Jonathan Wagener
>>      Web Developer / Architect
>>      Amoeba Business Solutions
>>      Cell:    +27 72 928 0513
>>      Office: +27 21 785 1424
>>      Web:    www.amoeba.co.za
>>      Blog:   www.espresso-online.info 
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
>> On Behalf Of talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
>> Sent: 11 January 2008 21:16
>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>> Subject: talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
>>
>> Send talk mailing list submissions to
>> 	talk at lists.nyphp.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	talk-request at lists.nyphp.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	talk-owner at lists.nyphp.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
>> "Re: Contents of talk digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Namespaces (John Campbell)
>>    2. Question about explicit returns (Tod Dailey)
>>    3. Re: Question about explicit returns (David Krings)
>>    4. Re: Question about explicit returns (Tod Dailey)
>>    5. Re: Question about explicit returns (Ben Sgro)
>>    6. Re: Question about explicit returns (Michael B Allen)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:08:05 -0500
>> From: "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<8f0676b40801110908o18d742ceg22d3b6d10e9af64d at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Namespaces are supposed to be analogous to folders in the file system.
>>  Folders are how we prevent file name collisions, and namespaces are how
>> we prevent function/classname collisions.  If you have a bunch of files
>> that might have the same names as an existing file, then you just create
>> a new folder.  If you are importing code that may have function/class
>> collision, then you import it into a different namespace.  Unfortunately
>> I think the php devs don't think of namespaces in the same way, and it
>> looks like the 5.3 namespace implementation will lack the ability to
>> rename the namespace and relies on everyone using a unique namespace.
>> The domain convention is okay, but I would much rather be able to do
>> something like:
>>
>> include 'dkSuperClass.php' into namespace 'foo'
>>
>> It looks like the php devs are going the Java route, which ain't great
>> because it relies on every library being changed which will never happen
>> for compatibility reasons.
>>
>> I would much rather have a tool that lets me solve collisions today than
>> a tool that requires libraries to be rewritten and agreement on a naming
>> convention in order for it to work.
>>
>> </rant>
>>
>> Regards,
>> John Campbell
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:45:28 -0500
>> From: "Tod Dailey" <christiandailey at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
>> To: talk at lists.nyphp.org
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile has
>> recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on both
>> sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my question
>> still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>>
>> When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that
>> the given process failed or succeeded, I declare the Boolean as a
>> variable at the top of the function. I feel that this makes the code
>> easier to read whenever/if-ever I need to come back and add further
>> logic conditions to that function. When I come back to the function, I
>> have a short list of accept by exception where I more-or-less just need
>> to find the point that I return true to understand the function. Verse
>> inline returns, such as "if ($condition !== true) return false;" that
>> builds a list of failure by exception. It may just be in my head that
>> the first method is easier to read, but that's why I'm asking for
>> input/options. Here are two examples.
>> They should both return the same value, but by different means. Please
>> don't be side-track by the over-all quality of code/lack-thereof.
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
>>     $result = false;
>>
>>     $yourObj = new SomeObject;
>>
>>     $result = $yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id);
>>     if ($result === true) {as
>>         $restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestictedItems();
>>
>>         if (is_array($restrictedItems)) {
>>             $result =
>> $yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus);
>>
>>             if ($result === true) {
>>                 $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>>                 $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>>                 $result = true;
>>             }
>>         } else {
>>             $result = false;
>>         }
>>     }
>> }
>>
>>
>> public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
>>     $yourObj = new SomeObject;
>>
>>     if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id) !== true) {
>>         return false;
>>     }
>>
>>     if (!is_array($restrictedItems = $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems()))
>> {
>>         return false;
>>     }
>>
>>     if ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus) !==
>> true) {
>>         return false;
>>     }
>>
>>     $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>>     $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>>     return true;
>> }
>>
>> Once again, this is pseudo-code...
>> Christian
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20080111/d7b10f23/atta
>> chment-0001.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:02:43 -0500
>> From: David Krings <ramons at gmx.net>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Message-ID: <4787AF43.5030409 at gmx.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Tod Dailey wrote:
>>     
>>> The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile 
>>> has recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments on
>>>       
>>> both sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my 
>>> question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>>>       
>> I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the
>> end?) where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
>> including booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that
>> function and set the flag accordingly and then return the result at the
>> very end of the function
>>   I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct return
>> of the state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any
>> other way, I find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can
>> evaluate $result before retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is
>> potentially faster as it doesn't have to go through who knows how many
>> lines of code first before it reaches the return at the end. As soon as
>> a return is hit in the function the function exits and sends back the
>> return values.
>>
>> I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes
>> sense. It would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either
>> version that you have heard so far.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:23:15 -0500
>> From: "Tod Dailey" <christiandailey at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<6232fa7e0801111023u156b0297w7fbfa63dd1b5f4fa at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've received
>> weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a left-over
>> practice from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with PHP (??).
>> I've also heard the argument that returning inline values is faster, and
>> easier to see exactly what is being returned. That pretty much sums up
>> what I've heard so-far.
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Tod Dailey wrote:
>>>       
>>>> The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile
>>>>         
>>>> has recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments 
>>>> on both sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but 
>>>> my question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>>>>         
>>> I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at the 
>>> end?) where I declare anything that is used in the function at the 
>>> top, including booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that 
>>> function and set the flag accordingly and then return the result at 
>>> the very end of the function  I see the benefits of the second version
>>>       
>>> as there is a direct return of the state and it saves a variable. 
>>> Without having it tried out any other way, I find version 1 to be 
>>> easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate $result before retruning it, 
>>> can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as it doesn't have to 
>>> go through who knows how many lines of code first before it reaches 
>>> the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function the 
>>> function exits and sends back the return values.
>>>
>>> I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2 makes 
>>> sense. It would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either 
>>> version that you have heard so far.
>>>
>>> David
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>
>>>       
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20080111/80fff8f9/atta
>> chment-0001.html
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:37:51 -0500
>> From: Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Message-ID: <4787B77F.1090601 at projectskyline.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Word, I immediately feel version 2 is easier to understand. Yeah you
>> can't check the result, but you could step through with a debugger and
>> then check the *result*
>>
>> $result just adds extra complexity; no need to copy the value and then
>> return it. Just return it at the first point you can return it.
>> In something more complex, maybe having 50 places you could exit that
>> function, in that case, save the result and do a  return $result; at the
>> bottom. That's fine, and makes sense.
>>
>> I can't comment on speed but I'd guess both these methods run pretty
>> close to the same speed.
>> I would never waste time optimizing something like this (unless I knew
>> it was causing a bottleneck).
>>
>> - Ben
>>
>> Tod Dailey wrote:
>>     
>>> That's part of the reason I'm asking here, as the replies I've 
>>> received weren't that informative. I've heard that method #1 is a 
>>> left-over practice from C/Java programmers, and isn't necessary with 
>>> PHP (??). I've also heard the argument that returning inline values is
>>>       
>>> faster, and easier to see exactly what is being returned. That pretty 
>>> much sums up what I've heard so-far.
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 11, 2008 1:02 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net 
>>> <mailto:ramons at gmx.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Tod Dailey wrote:
>>>     > The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for
>>>     awhile has
>>>     > recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments
>>>     on both
>>>     > sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but my
>>>     question
>>>     > still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>>>
>>>     I use version 1 (can it be that you forgot to return $result at
>>>     the end?)
>>>     where I declare anything that is used in the function at the top,
>>>     including
>>>     booleans. I then do whatever I want/need to do in that function
>>>     and set the
>>>     flag accordingly and then return the result at the very end of the
>>>     function
>>>      I see the benefits of the second version as there is a direct
>>>     return of the
>>>     state and it saves a variable. Without having it tried out any
>>>     other way, I
>>>     find version 1 to be easier to debug. In v1 you can evaluate
>>>     $result before
>>>     retruning it, can't do that with v2. V2 is potentially faster as
>>>     it doesn't
>>>     have to go through who knows how many lines of code first before
>>>     it reaches
>>>     the return at the end. As soon as a return is hit in the function
>>>     the function
>>>     exits and sends back the return values.
>>>
>>>     I'd develop using v1 and then see later if optimizing using v2
>>>     makes sense. It
>>>     would be interesting to know the pros and cons for either version
>>>     that you
>>>     have heard so far.
>>>
>>>     David
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>>>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>>>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
>>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>>
>>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>>
>>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP 
>>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>>       
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:56:35 -0500
>> From: "Michael B Allen" <ioplex at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
>> To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
>> Message-ID:
>> 	<78c6bd860801111056h2af89e00tac0fe4e0fc2c7c6a at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> On 1/11/08, Tod Dailey <christiandailey at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates that
>>>       
>>> the given process failed or <snip> Verse inline returns, such as "if 
>>> ($condition !== true) return false;" that builds a list of failure by 
>>> exception.
>>>       
>> Hi Tod,
>>
>> I don't think it matters that much. I would rather spend time thinking
>> about the overall design. Just pick one technique that makes you happy
>> and stick to it.
>>
>> This is how I would write it:
>>
>> public function checkForSomething($record_id) {
>>     $yourObj = new SomeObject;
>>
>>     if ($yourObj->loadObjectByRecordId($record_id)) {
>>         if (is_array($restrictedItems =
>> $yourObj->getUnrestrictedItems())) {
>>             if
>> ($yourObj->updateUnrestrictedItems(self::ObjectItemStatus)) {
>>                 $this->setRecordStatusId($yourObj->getRecordStatusId());
>>                 $this->setRestrictedItemList($restrictedItems);
>>                 return true;
>>             }
>>         }
>>     }
>>
>>     return false;
>> }
>>
>> --
>> Michael B Allen
>> PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
>> http://www.ioplex.com/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> talk mailing list
>> talk at lists.nyphp.org
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> End of talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 22
>> ************************************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>>
>> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>>
>> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>>
>>     
>
>   



From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Sat Jan 12 00:48:31 2008
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:48:31 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5 upgrade and suPHP ?
Message-ID: <301748250.20080112134831@qualityadvantages.com>

Hello nyphptalk colleagues,

I have a client who has been upgraded to PHP5 and the ISP has also
implemented suPHP in the process. The core application that my client
is using had/has a write requirement on certain folders that do things
like temporary image creation and document generation/storage as well
as a cache that stores profiles settings.  Well, as you might have
already guessed, everything broke that had folders set to 777. I got
Server 500 errors on most of the folders that were set to 777 and an
error about the Directory being writable by group. The ISP has
temporarily switched off the suPHP and is looking for me to provide a
solution to the write permissions requirement of the app.

I look through the documentation and, of course, its as clear as mud.

I am thinking that this should work now without the group permissions
being set if the owner has write permissions which it does. Any one
run into this issue and can shed a little light on it for me?

I found a few things that mention using .htaccess and local php.ini
files but that doesn't address the permissions issue.

TIA for any assistance on this, regards, mikesz


  

-- 
Best regards,
 mikesz                          mailto:mikesz at qualityadvantages.com



From erharold at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 08:37:56 2008
From: erharold at gmail.com (Elliotte Harold)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:37:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
Message-ID: <4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>

Michael Southwell wrote:

> ah, no, these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an integer, $b 
> and $c are strings, and $d is unset. $b and $c when converted to 
> integers for the purpose of comparison in #1 and #3 turn into 0 (zero) 
> so the comparisons are true. #2 compares two different strings and so is 
> false. #4 compares 0 to the integer of unset and so is true. #5 and #6 
> compare strings to the string of unset and so are false.
>>


Yes, this is what PHP does. It's just that what PHP does is insane. It 
does not match any normal, logical thought process.

-- 
Elliotte Rusty Harold  elharo at metalab.unc.edu
Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published!
http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/


From erharold at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 08:50:16 2008
From: erharold at gmail.com (Elliotte Harold)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 08:50:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build	websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477CB572.5040200@beezifies.com>
	<002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>
Message-ID: <4788C598.7090800@metalab.unc.edu>

Anthony Wlodarski wrote:
> Zesty Ping never learned === apparently.  This one's for you Zesty:
> 
> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison.php
> 
> "===" introduced type facing in php4 so it is a moot point or just poor reading skills on some developers parts if they missed this essential comparison operator...
> 

That's a bug, not a feature. Adding multiple equality operators makes 
the whole language still more complex and confusing and full of special 
cases one has to remember. It adds yet another way for programmers to 
enbug their programs. Adding an operator with correct semantics is only 
a solution if you remove the broken one at the same time.

-- 
Elliotte Rusty Harold  elharo at metalab.unc.edu
Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published!
http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/


From ramons at gmx.net  Sat Jan 12 09:43:03 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:43:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build	websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <4788C598.7090800@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477CB572.5040200@beezifies.com>	<002401c84e12$ef88b1b0$ce9a1510$@com>
	<4788C598.7090800@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <4788D1F7.2070302@gmx.net>

Elliotte Harold wrote:
> Anthony Wlodarski wrote:
>> Zesty Ping never learned === apparently.  This one's for you Zesty:
>>
>> http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.operators.comparison.php
>>
>> "===" introduced type facing in php4 so it is a moot point or just 
>> poor reading skills on some developers parts if they missed this 
>> essential comparison operator...
>>
> 
> That's a bug, not a feature. Adding multiple equality operators makes 
> the whole language still more complex and confusing and full of special 
> cases one has to remember. It adds yet another way for programmers to 
> enbug their programs. Adding an operator with correct semantics is only 
> a solution if you remove the broken one at the same time.
> 

And doing so will break 99.999% of all PHP scripts currently in use. That is 
crap that Microsoft pulls off, but others are a bit more careful with the 
changes that they implement. I think this is one way to do it and if PHP's 
masterminds would have decided to do it differently some folks would jump up 
and down about that as well. Just look at Commodore BASIC V2, it only knows 
the = doing all three things of =, ==, and === in PHP depending on context. 
For example, writing
IF A = 10
doesn't do a value assignment, but since it is in an IF clause it is always a 
comparison. In regards to IF really the only thing that makes sense, otherwise 
the condition is always true and you won't need the IF. But all modern 
languages do it that way and that is equally dumb. And it is pretty difficult 
to make a language to be dumber than Commodore BASIC V2.

No matter how something is done it always has disadvantages. And in reagrds to 
PHP the disadvantages are acceptable compared to other supposedly better 
programming languages. Just look at the language we use to have this 
discussion. Most of English doesn't make any sense at all. Why is natrium 
called sodium in English? Why is repipe pronounced differently than recipe? 
Why is every greek or latin name mispronounced in English? Why is there no 
reliable set of rules for use of commata in English? Based on your arguments, 
we should all start speaking Latin, which is known for its rigid rules and 
very very few exceptions, which is the main reason why it is taught in 
schools. Teaches how to follow a strict rule set and is a very nice tool to 
learn how to learn complex things.

David


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Sat Jan 12 10:18:00 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:18:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860801111423o41c28878hbcd6dbb268ded0fd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080111205549.GA15748@panix.com>
	<78c6bd860801111423o41c28878hbcd6dbb268ded0fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080112151800.GA3578@panix.com>

On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 05:23:35PM -0500, Michael B Allen wrote:

> I think the nesting helps you understand the code.

But things get harder to understand if you're nested so far that half of 
the code on the line flies off the right hand side of the screen (or 
wraps).

Plus to figure out what the code is actually doing you need to jump back 
and forth between the appropriate if's and else's.  The deeper this gets 
the harder this gets.

Then theres the issue of having to read the ENTIRE function in order to 
figure out what happens in a given case, even if the function resolves 
your issue near the top.


> You know the more
> indented you are the deeper the success of the overall operation.

The same could be said about how many lines down you are into the 
function.


> Regarding the number of returns, it's better to minimize the number of
> exit points because it simplifies the function contract. If you have
> to modify the code later, there are fewer exit points to consider.

Yeah, I've heard that point of view before.  Sure, you can design only 
one exit point but then you have to use more time considering more code 
and ensuring all your code doesn't inadvertently change the result before 
returning.

Guess our minds work differently. :)

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From tedd at sperling.com  Sat Jan 12 10:20:04 2008
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:20:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>	<47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net>	<478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
	<4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
Message-ID: <p06240805c3ae8ae70502@[192.168.1.102]>

At 11:23 AM -0500 1/11/08, Jim Hendricks wrote:
>When Palm opened up the platform for 3rd party programming, they 
>created a registration page for the database type id's.  This 
>allowed for global registration which would eliminate namespace 
>collissions so long as programmers registered the id's they were 
>using prior to distro.
>
>Don't know how effective it was, but thot it was a good idea.
>
>How crazy would it be if PHP had namespaces and a namespace registration.

URL's are unique and that's the reason why xml uses them for namespace.

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sat Jan 12 10:34:22 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:34:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <4788DDFE.1070100@tgaconnect.com>

Elliotte Harold wrote:
> Michael Southwell wrote:
> 
>> ah, no, these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an integer, 
>> $b and $c are strings, and $d is unset. $b and $c when converted to 
>> integers for the purpose of comparison in #1 and #3 turn into 0 (zero) 
>> so the comparisons are true. #2 compares two different strings and so 
>> is false. #4 compares 0 to the integer of unset and so is true. #5 and 
>> #6 compare strings to the string of unset and so are false.
>>>
> 
> 
> Yes, this is what PHP does. It's just that what PHP does is insane. It 
> does not match any normal, logical thought process.
> 
Insane may be overly harsh -- how about 'unorthodox'?

It does strike me, though, that there are an awfully large
number of questions to the internals list asking whether a
certain behavior is expected or not.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From tedd at sperling.com  Sat Jan 12 10:45:53 2008
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:45:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Problem with MySQL UPDATE syntax
In-Reply-To: <E1JDLqK-00046a-00@pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <E1JDLqK-00046a-00@pop-siberian.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <p06240809c3ae8fde2ef3@[192.168.1.102]>

At 9:39 AM -0600 1/11/08, Tony Furnivall wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I'm having a problem with the UPDATE syntax for MySQL
>
>(aside - I hate products that tell me I have a syntax problem, but 
>don't tell me what it is - and then suggest that I go RTFM  which is 
>equally uninformative:-()
>
>I'm replacing the entire set of fields, WHERE a condition exists for 
>some of the fields, ie
>
>UPDATE table_name SET field1 = ' value1', field2 = ' value2', field3 
>= ' value3, field4 = ' value4'  WHERE field1 = ' value1' AND field2 
>= ' value2';
>
>MySQL says that I have error 1064 'near WHERE field1 = ' value1' AND 
>field2 = ' value2'
>
>but it doesn't say what therror is (grrr!)

Why the extra space before value1 (i.e., field1 = ' value1') ?

And where are the variables?

Shouldn't you be using something like:

UPDATE table_name SET field1 = '$value1',

That works for me.

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From tedd at sperling.com  Sat Jan 12 10:52:40 2008
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:52:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0624080ac3ae923abc83@[192.168.1.102]>

At 12:45 PM -0500 1/11/08, Tod Dailey wrote:
>The validity of one of my coding practices that I've used for awhile 
>has recently come under question. I've tried to listen to arguments 
>on both sides, and there seems to be good points on both ends, but 
>my question still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction.
>
>When I'm writing a function that returns a Boolean that indicates 
>that the given process failed or succeeded, I declare the Boolean as 
>a variable at the top of the function. I feel that this makes the 
>code easier to read whenever/if-ever I need to come back and add 
>further logic conditions to that function. When I come back to the 
>function, I have a short list of accept by exception where I 
>more-or-less just need to find the point that I return true to 
>understand the function. Verse inline returns, such as "if 
>($condition !== true) return false;" that builds a list of failure 
>by exception. It may just be in my head that the first method is 
>easier to read, but that's why I'm asking for input/options. Here 
>are two examples. They should both return the same value, but by 
>different means.

Number 1. One way into and out of a function.

Cheers,

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From tedd at sperling.com  Sat Jan 12 11:13:00 2008
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:13:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Whats the difference between an apostrophe and a
	quotation
In-Reply-To: <E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702AA0C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
References: <A5E87A2616AD460BABA62CC0B9F799DF@ABS.Office>
	<E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702AA0C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
Message-ID: <p0624080bc3ae96b1c86b@[192.168.1.102]>

At 12:44 AM +0200 1/12/08, Jonathan Wagener wrote:
>Hi, whats the difference between an apostrophe and a quotation in php?

What's the difference?

"This $string is evaluated by the compiler"

'and this $string isn't'

Cheers,

tedd

-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sat Jan 12 11:23:45 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 11:23:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Question about explicit returns
In-Reply-To: <20080112151800.GA3578@panix.com>
References: <6232fa7e0801110945k6a993f2eiab6b7e0ec6861cf4@mail.gmail.com>	<20080111205549.GA15748@panix.com>	<78c6bd860801111423o41c28878hbcd6dbb268ded0fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080112151800.GA3578@panix.com>
Message-ID: <4788E991.1050206@tgaconnect.com>

Daniel Convissor wrote:
[...]
> 
>> Regarding the number of returns, it's better to minimize the number of
>> exit points because it simplifies the function contract. If you have
>> to modify the code later, there are fewer exit points to consider.
> 
> Yeah, I've heard that point of view before.  Sure, you can design only 
> one exit point but then you have to use more time considering more code 
> and ensuring all your code doesn't inadvertently change the result before 
> returning.
> 
> Guess our minds work differently. :)
> 
Yeah, and from that code fragment it looks like
the work of two different people with different
mindsets.

Programmer A wrote a SomeObject class
with a loadObjectByRecordId($record_id) method.

Now we don't see the definition of the class.
But there might be an isValid member.

If there isn't, there probably should be one --
you could just extend the class and add it.

Programmer B comes along and want to reuse
the class, but with a procedural mindset.
So he uses the $result variable to decide
which path to take in his procedural code.

Testing ($result === true) before calling
$yourObj->getUnrestictedItems() should be
totally unnecessary -- the class should be
designed to report back an error if you try
try a 'getUnrestictedItems' when 'isValid'
is false.

Without considering adding another method
to the class to take advantage of an isValid
member (whether preexisting or extended) Progammer B
merrily continues along his procedural path.

The result is a 'reverse data abstraction', which
takes the innards of an object and brings them
up where they don't belong -- rather messy.

To me, discussing where to test the validation
variable in order to make the resultant proceural
code cleaner is moot.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From guilhermeblanco at gmail.com  Sat Jan 12 12:06:29 2008
From: guilhermeblanco at gmail.com (Guilherme Blanco)
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 15:06:29 -0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Whats the difference between an apostrophe and a
	quotation
In-Reply-To: <p0624080bc3ae96b1c86b@192.168.1.102>
References: <A5E87A2616AD460BABA62CC0B9F799DF@ABS.Office>
	<E373CD1D91DB2045BCE1277FF753D8D702AA0C@amoeba1.ABS.Office>
	<p0624080bc3ae96b1c86b@192.168.1.102>
Message-ID: <bcb7aa500801120906r3f06ba74pde707e9f381cd059@mail.gmail.com>

There are 3 types of quotes.

$var = 'test';

Single quotes: Not parsed by PHP compiler...

echo 'Some $var'; // Will print: Some $var

Double quotes: Parsed by compiler...

echo "Some $var"; // Will print: Some test

Backtick: Processed by console

echo `ps -aux`; // Will print running processes



I hope this info helps you...


Regards,




On Jan 12, 2008 2:13 PM, tedd <tedd at sperling.com> wrote:
> At 12:44 AM +0200 1/12/08, Jonathan Wagener wrote:
> >Hi, whats the difference between an apostrophe and a quotation in php?
>
> What's the difference?
>
> "This $string is evaluated by the compiler"
>
> 'and this $string isn't'
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd
>
> --
> -------
> http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
URL: http://blog.bisna.com
S?o Carlos - SP/Brazil

From ramons at gmx.net  Sun Jan 13 19:56:53 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:56:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Licensing open source software
Message-ID: <478AB355.9090509@gmx.net>

Hi!

I wrote two small PHP functions that allow for easily adding context sensitive 
help (CSH) calls to MadCap Flare's WebHelp (and potentially others). I am a 
MadCap MVP and plan on cross-publishing the code on NYPHP-Talk (this list) as 
well as in the MadCap Flare Forum. Now that I am about to put the finishing 
touches on it by completing a wrapper function that makes CSH calls easier 
(only need to specify an ID to make the call later on) I wondered under which 
license (if any) I should release the code. None if it is anything special, 
there are maybe 50 lines of code if that, but it is the first code that I 
think is good enough to get published and really has some benefit for the 
general (Flare using) public. Here are some things that I want to get out of 
the licensing:
- get credited (have my name mentioned in code) when the functions are used, 
the same way as I credited NYPHP for helping me out with the JavaScript stuff 
a few weeks ago
- mandate that any changes or improvements are sent to me, but not for the 
sake of approval, but for making my own code better (If I like the change or 
enhancement) and potentially communicate with users when I make changes
- prohibit commercial use without my written consent, meaning that I am not 
against a company using it in their web app, but I want to know about it and 
most likely get into agreement on special terms such as not getting sued for 
the case that my few lines of code don't work under some circumstances that I 
never encountered. The special terms aren't meant to get compensation (I won't 
complain about getting something, but I doubt anyone would pay for it).

And that is pretty much it. Now, I could just create my own license and call 
it a day, but I think there are already wayyyyyyyyyyy toooooo maaaannnyyyy 
open source licenses that I really don't think that I have to add yet another 
one. I first thought about GPL 2.0 or 3.0, but honestly, I haven't read that 
license and I have no idea if it does what I want. So, again, I turn to NYPHP 
and ask for advice. I know that you will start your replies with "IANAL...", 
but some of you published code before or contribute to projects or may have a 
way better understanding of licensing than I have.
I plan to use that license then later on for my gettext alternative (which may 
come in handy for those who can't just restart a web server to update string 
files) and then again later on for my PiViViewer that I am working on now for 
three years (I use the tortoise development method, hehe).

Any proposal is greatly appreciated.

David


From tom at supertom.com  Sun Jan 13 23:49:28 2008
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:49:28 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Licensing open source software
In-Reply-To: <478AB355.9090509@gmx.net>
References: <478AB355.9090509@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <117286890801132049k5eafb938s853eb27862940958@mail.gmail.com>

Hi David,

Items 2 and 3 on your list are not GPL compatible (although, IANAL),
but I think you might find Creative Commons
Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 close to what you want.  It
doesn't mandate that people have to give their changes back to you (I
don't believe any of the licenses do) but keeps the code changes they
make in same or similar license that you've chosen.  So, if you give
it away, they will too (assuming that they actually distribute the
code).

With that said, I would think again about your requirements,
especially item 3.  I myself would probably choose the LGPL for your
code - it gives flexibility and gives you credit.  Or, really, if
we're just talking about a couple of functions, public domain is fine
too.  If it is *really* that valuable, you'll get credit (look at
SQLite) and if commercial entities want to use it, let them, as that
is your best path to adoption of your work and even possible
gigs/jobs/riches/whatever later on.

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


On Jan 13, 2008 4:56 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I wrote two small PHP functions that allow for easily adding context sensitive
> help (CSH) calls to MadCap Flare's WebHelp (and potentially others). I am a
> MadCap MVP and plan on cross-publishing the code on NYPHP-Talk (this list) as
> well as in the MadCap Flare Forum. Now that I am about to put the finishing
> touches on it by completing a wrapper function that makes CSH calls easier
> (only need to specify an ID to make the call later on) I wondered under which
> license (if any) I should release the code. None if it is anything special,
> there are maybe 50 lines of code if that, but it is the first code that I
> think is good enough to get published and really has some benefit for the
> general (Flare using) public. Here are some things that I want to get out of
> the licensing:
> - get credited (have my name mentioned in code) when the functions are used,
> the same way as I credited NYPHP for helping me out with the JavaScript stuff
> a few weeks ago
> - mandate that any changes or improvements are sent to me, but not for the
> sake of approval, but for making my own code better (If I like the change or
> enhancement) and potentially communicate with users when I make changes
> - prohibit commercial use without my written consent, meaning that I am not
> against a company using it in their web app, but I want to know about it and
> most likely get into agreement on special terms such as not getting sued for
> the case that my few lines of code don't work under some circumstances that I
> never encountered. The special terms aren't meant to get compensation (I won't
> complain about getting something, but I doubt anyone would pay for it).
>
> And that is pretty much it. Now, I could just create my own license and call
> it a day, but I think there are already wayyyyyyyyyyy toooooo maaaannnyyyy
> open source licenses that I really don't think that I have to add yet another
> one. I first thought about GPL 2.0 or 3.0, but honestly, I haven't read that
> license and I have no idea if it does what I want. So, again, I turn to NYPHP
> and ask for advice. I know that you will start your replies with "IANAL...",
> but some of you published code before or contribute to projects or may have a
> way better understanding of licensing than I have.
> I plan to use that license then later on for my gettext alternative (which may
> come in handy for those who can't just restart a web server to update string
> files) and then again later on for my PiViViewer that I am working on now for
> three years (I use the tortoise development method, hehe).
>
> Any proposal is greatly appreciated.
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 01:45:24 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:45:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Licensing open source software
In-Reply-To: <478AB355.9090509@gmx.net>
References: <478AB355.9090509@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801132245r19235291pc276b5f2cf6c1289@mail.gmail.com>

> - get credited (have my name mentioned in code) [snip]
Fair enough.

> - mandate that any changes or improvements are sent to me [snip]
Are you kidding?  One of the principals of open source is that people
are free to modify the code.  Adding such a restriction to modifying
the code would be a non-starter for most everyone.  Don't bother
releasing the code if you include this restriction.  I suggest
relaxing this requirement and putting a comment, "send bug fixes/
patches to your at emal.com."

> - prohibit commercial use without my written consent, meaning that I am not
> against a company using it in their web app, but I want to know about it and
> most likely get into agreement on special terms such as not getting sued... [snip]

Do you want to prohibit commercial use, or do you want to prevent
yourself from getting sued?  These are separate issues.  Keep in mind
that preventing commercial use means no one will use your code.

Just as an FYI, open source licenses don't specify what others can do
with code, but instead they specify what others must do when
(re)distributing the code.  The distinction is subtle, but very
important.

I suggest dropping 2,3 and use the LGPL.  That will get you 1 plus
legal indemnity.
or just use the MIT license (public domain + legal indemnity)

Regards,
John Campbell


From ramons at gmx.net  Mon Jan 14 07:01:53 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:01:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Licensing open source software
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801132245r19235291pc276b5f2cf6c1289@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478AB355.9090509@gmx.net>
	<8f0676b40801132245r19235291pc276b5f2cf6c1289@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478B4F31.5040800@gmx.net>

Hi!

Ton's comments were along the lines of these as well.

John Campbell wrote:
>> - get credited (have my name mentioned in code) [snip]
> Fair enough.

Good.

> 
>> - mandate that any changes or improvements are sent to me [snip]
> Are you kidding?  One of the principals of open source is that people
> are free to modify the code.  Adding such a restriction to modifying
> the code would be a non-starter for most everyone.  Don't bother
> releasing the code if you include this restriction.  I suggest
> relaxing this requirement and putting a comment, "send bug fixes/
> patches to your at emal.com."

I obviously worded it wrong. That is exactly what I want. I can't enforce a 
mandate anyway, so why put one in. I shouldn't have used the word "mandate". I 
also don't want to put restrictions on modifications, I just have an interest 
in knowing about those for making the code better at the source.

>> - prohibit commercial use without my written consent, meaning that I am not
>> against a company using it in their web app, but I want to know about it and
>> most likely get into agreement on special terms such as not getting sued... [snip]
> 
> Do you want to prohibit commercial use, or do you want to prevent
> yourself from getting sued?  These are separate issues.  Keep in mind
> that preventing commercial use means no one will use your code.

I don't want to prohibit commercial use per s? and for this point as well, my 
intentions didn't make it into proper wording. My main concern here is that I 
don't want to get into legal trouble for being a bad coder or have someone 
drag me in front of some court demanding that I make 534 fixes within a week 
or else. I also want to have something in hand that gives some leverage if 
someone wants to patent "Programmatic connectivity between PHP Hypertext 
Preprocessor applications and MadCap Flare WebHelp outputs" or claim it as 
their own, obfuscate, and sell it. With the way I want to put it out I should 
cover that by the "poor man's patent": write it down and mail it to yourself, 
but don't open the envelope when you get it back. I think the handful of lines 
of code are just too unimportant for court cases or patents. But this is the 
USA, you can get sued for everything and you can patent and trademark everything.

> Just as an FYI, open source licenses don't specify what others can do
> with code, but instead they specify what others must do when
> (re)distributing the code.  The distinction is subtle, but very
> important.

That is why I ask you all as you know more about this than I do.

> I suggest dropping 2,3 and use the LGPL.  That will get you 1 plus
> legal indemnity.
> or just use the MIT license (public domain + legal indemnity)

Tom proposed the LGPL as well. So that is two recommendations for that. I will 
take a look at the LGPL and see what it states.

John, Tom, thanks for your very helpful advice! :)


David


From ken at secdat.com  Mon Jan 14 08:17:06 2008
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:17:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>

Elliotte Harold wrote:
> Michael Southwell wrote:
>
>> ah, no, these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an integer, 
>> $b and $c are strings, and $d is unset. $b and $c when converted to 
>> integers for the purpose of comparison in #1 and #3 turn into 0 
>> (zero) so the comparisons are true. #2 compares two different strings 
>> and so is false. #4 compares 0 to the integer of unset and so is 
>> true. #5 and #6 compare strings to the string of unset and so are false.
>>>
>
>
> Yes, this is what PHP does. It's just that what PHP does is insane. It 
> does not match any normal, logical thought process.
>

A content-free emotive statement. 

It would be more accurate to say that it follows a set of principles you 
do not share, namely, weak typing.  We would expect you as a java dude 
to prefer strong typing.  Strong typing to me is inappropriate in a web 
layer, and reduces my productivity.  Is it insane?  No, just 
incompatible with my design goals and methods.

-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010



From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 11:22:44 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:22:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu> <477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu> <478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801140822s5d592dcfx3d9075e43147117@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 14, 2008 8:17 AM, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
> Elliotte Harold wrote:
> > Michael Southwell wrote:
> >
> >> ah, no, these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an integer,
> >> $b and $c are strings, and $d is unset. $b and $c when converted to
> >> integers for the purpose of comparison in #1 and #3 turn into 0
> >> (zero) so the comparisons are true. #2 compares two different strings
> >> and so is false. #4 compares 0 to the integer of unset and so is
> >> true. #5 and #6 compare strings to the string of unset and so are false.
> >>>
> >
> >
> > Yes, this is what PHP does. It's just that what PHP does is insane. It
> > does not match any normal, logical thought process.
> >
>
> A content-free emotive statement.
>
> It would be more accurate to say that it follows a set of principles you
> do not share, namely, weak typing.  We would expect you as a java dude
> to prefer strong typing.  Strong typing to me is inappropriate in a web
> layer, and reduces my productivity.  Is it insane?  No, just
> incompatible with my design goals and methods.

I am with Rusty on this one.  PHP is insane in this regard.  Consider
the following statements:
1+1=2
if a < b and b < c then a < c
if a=b and b=c then a=c

I am a bit of a purist, and I hold these three rules to be
self-evident and violations of these rules put one outside the realm
of a normal logical thought process.   PHP violates #2 and #3,
therefore PHP is insane.  Other weakly typed languages do not violate
these rules.  This is not about weak vs strong typing, although it is
much easier to get basic logic right in a strongly typed language.

If you still don't understand the problem, then take this quiz:
what is the output of the following statements?
var_dump(true + true);
var_dump(null < 0);
var_dump(null < -1);
var_dump(null < 1);

Regards,
John Campbell


From paul at gubavision.com  Mon Jan 14 11:39:51 2008
From: paul at gubavision.com (paul at gubavision.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:39:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Shopping Cart that schedules bookings
Message-ID: <20080114113951.7xib0bny80gc48wk@mail.fluidhosting.com>

Does anyone know of a shopping cart that would allow the user to book  
time with a service provider?  Much like buying a product but in this  
case book time and date.

Paul


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Jan 14 14:32:12 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:32:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP5 upgrade and suPHP ?
In-Reply-To: <301748250.20080112134831@qualityadvantages.com>
References: <301748250.20080112134831@qualityadvantages.com>
Message-ID: <E947D00B-C6C9-4106-B6D2-FB144B9A13AD@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 12, 2008, at 12:48 AM, mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
> I have a client who has been upgraded to PHP5 and the ISP has also
> implemented suPHP in the process. The core application that my client
> is using had/has a write requirement on certain folders that do things
> like temporary image creation and document generation/storage as well
> as a cache that stores profiles settings.  Well, as you might have
> already guessed, everything broke that had folders set to 777. I got
> Server 500 errors on most of the folders that were set to 777 and an
> error about the Directory being writable by group.


Mike,

There should be a config file for suPHP.  For me, it's located at /usr/ 
local/etc/suphp.conf.  This file has a number of security settings.   
These are most closely tied to your problem:

; Security options
allow_file_group_writeable=true
allow_file_others_writeable=true
allow_directory_group_writeable=true
allow_directory_others_writeable=true

Let me know if you still have trouble after they change these  
settings.  It might require a webserver reboot... can't remember.

-Rob




From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Jan 14 17:25:30 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:25:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Affilitate marketing question
Message-ID: <C3B14B8A.B9BF%cliff@pinestream.com>

This is outside the php realm, but this group always has interesting
insights.

Did anyone see this article in Sunday?s Times?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/business/13digi.html?_r=1&ref=business&ore
f=slogin

What struck me as interesting is that most of the revenue comes from
affiliate marketing links, not adsense, according to the site owner. I?m
curious about advertising/affiliate link revenue sources other than the
obvious adsense.

Where do I go about learning about these alternative advertising/affiliate
link revenue sources? Conferences, good tutorials, web sites (free or
commercial), industry rags, etc.

Cliff
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From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 17:37:00 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (A.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:37:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
Message-ID: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>

Hi Everyone,

I'm having trouble with my form processing script for the first time; 
some of the email addresses I'm sending the results to aren't receiving 
anything. The server sending the mail is Linux, in a shared hosting 
environment.

I've googled for a solution and understand that this probably has to do 
with spam filters on some mail servers flagging the mail as junk and/or 
the PHP ini directive sendmail_from either being set incorrectly or not 
matching the "From:" header in the email headers. For the record, 
sendmail_from on the server I'm using has "no value" according to phpinfo().

Can anyone advise me on the best work-round? Would I be better of using 
the Pear Mail package or maybe trying a PHP class like PHPMailer?

TIA,
Bev



From ben at projectskyline.com  Mon Jan 14 17:47:02 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:47:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>

Hello,

Out the box, PHPMailer works pretty good. I know there is a bug in the 
install I used where you have to explicitly
set the language variable or else it doesn't work.

I'd suggest further debugging your current situation before switching to 
PHPMailer.

- Ben

A. wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I'm having trouble with my form processing script for the first time; 
> some of the email addresses I'm sending the results to aren't 
> receiving anything. The server sending the mail is Linux, in a shared 
> hosting environment.
>
> I've googled for a solution and understand that this probably has to 
> do with spam filters on some mail servers flagging the mail as junk 
> and/or the PHP ini directive sendmail_from either being set 
> incorrectly or not matching the "From:" header in the email headers. 
> For the record, sendmail_from on the server I'm using has "no value" 
> according to phpinfo().
>
> Can anyone advise me on the best work-round? Would I be better of 
> using the Pear Mail package or maybe trying a PHP class like PHPMailer?
>
> TIA,
> Bev
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 18:02:48 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:02:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>
Message-ID: <478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>

Ben Sgro wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Out the box, PHPMailer works pretty good. I know there is a bug in the 
> install I used where you have to explicitly
> set the language variable or else it doesn't work.
> 
> I'd suggest further debugging your current situation before switching to 
> PHPMailer.
> 
> - Ben

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the bug warning.

I've only been programming PHP in earnest for a little under a year, so 
I'm not entirely sure what else I should be looking for when I attempt 
to debug.

I've tried setting "Return-path" and "Reply-to" headers, but that 
doesn't help. The emails are received on some servers, but not on 
others--i.e. on one of my accounts they come through fine, but on 
another (hosted elsewhere) they don't. Ditto when I try mailing to 
GMail, Hotmail and Verizon accounts--they don't even make it to the spam 
folder.

Bev


From ben at projectskyline.com  Mon Jan 14 18:12:12 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:12:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>
	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478BEC4C.6000106@projectskyline.com>

Hello,

Gosh, who knows. I have a problem like that w/an app that runs 
PHPMailer; yahoo users never see the emails.
It really sucks, and there isn't anything I can do about it. Yahoo just 
decides to block this particular domain, or
whatever.

Maybe someone with more email knowledge can chime in.

- Ben

B.A.S. wrote:
> Ben Sgro wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Out the box, PHPMailer works pretty good. I know there is a bug in 
>> the install I used where you have to explicitly
>> set the language variable or else it doesn't work.
>>
>> I'd suggest further debugging your current situation before switching 
>> to PHPMailer.
>>
>> - Ben
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> Thanks for the bug warning.
>
> I've only been programming PHP in earnest for a little under a year, 
> so I'm not entirely sure what else I should be looking for when I 
> attempt to debug.
>
> I've tried setting "Return-path" and "Reply-to" headers, but that 
> doesn't help. The emails are received on some servers, but not on 
> others--i.e. on one of my accounts they come through fine, but on 
> another (hosted elsewhere) they don't. Ditto when I try mailing to 
> GMail, Hotmail and Verizon accounts--they don't even make it to the 
> spam folder.
>
> Bev
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 14 18:13:22 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:13:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com> <478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>

Sending mail from a shared host is always problematic.  Do you have
your own ip?  A shared ip address is a disaster because if there is
one spammer on the host, you are SOL and there is nothing you can do
about it.  If you care about emails going through, get your own ip and
make sure your dns has a SPF record.

Regards,
John Campbell


From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 18:40:55 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:40:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>
	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>

John Campbell wrote:
> Sending mail from a shared host is always problematic.  Do you have
> your own ip?  A shared ip address is a disaster because if there is
> one spammer on the host, you are SOL and there is nothing you can do
> about it.  If you care about emails going through, get your own ip and
> make sure your dns has a SPF record.
> 
> Regards,
> John Campbell

No, the client in question doesn't have their own (dedicated) IP and 
AFAIK the only thing available is a static IP, which I'm guessing 
wouldn't help since (as I understand it) several domains could be using 
the same static IP. It doesn't have an SPF record either.

Thanks for the advice.

Bev


From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 18:49:43 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:49:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BEC4C.6000106@projectskyline.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
	<478BEC4C.6000106@projectskyline.com>
Message-ID: <478BF517.9000104@nopersonal.info>

Ben Sgro wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Gosh, who knows. I have a problem like that w/an app that runs 
> PHPMailer; yahoo users never see the emails.
> It really sucks, and there isn't anything I can do about it. Yahoo just 
> decides to block this particular domain, or
> whatever.
> 
> Maybe someone with more email knowledge can chime in.
> 
> - Ben

Hi Ben,


Well, luckily the mail server's IP address doesn't appear to be on any 
blacklists according to http://www.mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx, so I 
guess that's some consolation.

Thanks for trying to help. I'll eventually work it out one way or another.

Bev


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Mon Jan 14 18:59:05 2008
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:59:05 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>
	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>
	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <mailman.21.1363003723.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 06:40 PM 1/14/2008, B.A.S. wrote:

>No, the client in question doesn't have their own (dedicated) IP and 
>AFAIK the only thing available is a static IP, which I'm guessing 
>wouldn't help since (as I understand it) several domains could be 
>using the same static IP. It doesn't have an SPF record either.

Get a SPF record on the DNS Zone for the domain. A PTR record is also 
good, but the hosting company usually has to do that one.

As for the mail() function itself, use the "optional" 5th parameter 
to set the "Return-path:" header. Set it to "-f 
username at the.domain.in.question". The username doesn't have to exist. 
Some domains like AOL will throw away email where domain in the 
"Return-path:" header doesn't match the domain in the "From:" header.

Ken 



From sjmci at optonline.net  Mon Jan 14 18:58:20 2008
From: sjmci at optonline.net (Steve Solomon)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:58:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
	websitesinstead of Java
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801140822s5d592dcfx3d9075e43147117@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000b01c85709$575c0630$6601a8c0@T1400>

Well, OK, so you are complaining about PHP when your code isn't even
aware that it is comparing integers with strings and comparing variables
that have no value?  On second thought you are correct in that PHP
should be smart enough to realize your code has no idea what it is
doing.  Java would surely pick that up instantly.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of John Campbell
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 11:23 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build
websitesinstead of Java


On Jan 14, 2008 8:17 AM, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
> Elliotte Harold wrote:
> > Michael Southwell wrote:
> >
> >> ah, no, these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an 
> >> integer, $b and $c are strings, and $d is unset. $b and $c when 
> >> converted to integers for the purpose of comparison in #1 and #3 
> >> turn into 0
> >> (zero) so the comparisons are true. #2 compares two different
strings
> >> and so is false. #4 compares 0 to the integer of unset and so is
> >> true. #5 and #6 compare strings to the string of unset and so are
false.
> >>>
> >
> >
> > Yes, this is what PHP does. It's just that what PHP does is insane. 
> > It does not match any normal, logical thought process.
> >
>
> A content-free emotive statement.
>
> It would be more accurate to say that it follows a set of principles 
> you do not share, namely, weak typing.  We would expect you as a java 
> dude to prefer strong typing.  Strong typing to me is inappropriate in

> a web layer, and reduces my productivity.  Is it insane?  No, just 
> incompatible with my design goals and methods.

I am with Rusty on this one.  PHP is insane in this regard.  Consider
the following statements:
1+1=2
if a < b and b < c then a < c
if a=b and b=c then a=c

I am a bit of a purist, and I hold these three rules to be self-evident
and violations of these rules put one outside the realm
of a normal logical thought process.   PHP violates #2 and #3,
therefore PHP is insane.  Other weakly typed languages do not violate
these rules.  This is not about weak vs strong typing, although it is
much easier to get basic logic right in a strongly typed language.

If you still don't understand the problem, then take this quiz: what is
the output of the following statements? var_dump(true + true);
var_dump(null < 0); var_dump(null < -1); var_dump(null < 1);

Regards,
John Campbell
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date:
1/14/2008 5:39 PM
 

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Checked by AVG Free Edition. 
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date:
1/14/2008 5:39 PM
 



From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 19:21:20 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:21:20 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info> 
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>

Ken Robinson wrote:
> Get a SPF record on the DNS Zone for the domain. A PTR record is also 
> good, but the hosting company usually has to do that one.
> 
> As for the mail() function itself, use the "optional" 5th parameter to 
> set the "Return-path:" header. Set it to "-f 
> username at the.domain.in.question". The username doesn't have to exist. 
> Some domains like AOL will throw away email where domain in the 
> "Return-path:" header doesn't match the domain in the "From:" header.
> 
> Ken

I've heard of SPF records before, but not PTR, so I'll go educate myself 
more on both counts to see if I can remedy the situation. The hosting 
company in question is pretty accommodating, so they may be willing to help.

I'll try that 5th parameter and see what happens. Luckily, for this 
particular script the "From:" header is hard-coded.

Thanks,
Bev


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Mon Jan 14 20:11:34 2008
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans Kaspersetz)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:11:34 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>
	<478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478C0846.2060909@cyberxdesigns.com>

So my guess is that the address the mail is coming from doesn't exist or 
the headers are malformed.  Send us the complete headers for on of your 
generated emails.

It should look like:

Subject: foo bar
From: blah blah <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:09:03 -0600
To: "Blah blah" <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>
Return-path: <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>
Envelope-to: blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:09:01 -0500
Received: from [189.149.170.20] (helo=[192.168.0.198]) by 
host.cxdhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) 
(envelope-from <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>) id 1JEaIR-0006mC-1b for 
blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:08:55 -0500
Message-ID: <478C07AF.9 at cyberxdesigns.com>
User-Agent:
Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)


That will start to help us pin point what the problem is.

Hans

B.A.S. wrote:
> Ken Robinson wrote:
>> Get a SPF record on the DNS Zone for the domain. A PTR record is also 
>> good, but the hosting company usually has to do that one.
>>
>> As for the mail() function itself, use the "optional" 5th parameter 
>> to set the "Return-path:" header. Set it to "-f 
>> username at the.domain.in.question". The username doesn't have to exist. 
>> Some domains like AOL will throw away email where domain in the 
>> "Return-path:" header doesn't match the domain in the "From:" header.
>>
>> Ken
>
> I've heard of SPF records before, but not PTR, so I'll go educate 
> myself more on both counts to see if I can remedy the situation. The 
> hosting company in question is pretty accommodating, so they may be 
> willing to help.
>
> I'll try that 5th parameter and see what happens. Luckily, for this 
> particular script the "From:" header is hard-coded.
>
> Thanks,
> Bev
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From rick at click-rick.net  Mon Jan 14 20:17:00 2008
From: rick at click-rick.net (Rick Retzko)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:17:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] xls output: localhost works, www doesn't
In-Reply-To: <E3497AD3-EFE0-4CF0-A35F-43B4566D1530@sala.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0712111918030.376-100000@bitblit.net><475F318F.7060104@projectskyline.com>
	<E3497AD3-EFE0-4CF0-A35F-43B4566D1530@sala.ca>
Message-ID: <000b01c85714$5559a580$0501a8c0@adam>

Hi all - Hopefully one of you have seen this and can quickly point me to the
error of my ways.

I need to output small files from mysql database to the user via excel
files. I'm using the following class to do this:

private function output_file(){
		//output the file to the user
		header("Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel;
name='excel'");
		header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename={$this->_file_name}");
		header("Pragma: no-cache");
		header("Expires:0");
		echo "{$this->_export_string}";
		exit();
	}

This works perfectly on localhost, but when I move it to my www site, it
outputs the data onto the screen. 

I've tried using "header('Content-Type: application/octet-stream');" as
well, with the same results.

All help is appreciated!

Best Regards - 
 
Rick
============
MFR Holdings, LLC
rick at click-rick.net
201.755.4083



From ramons at gmx.net  Mon Jan 14 21:18:13 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:18:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Announcement: Flare CSH Calls for PHP
Message-ID: <478C17E5.8080601@gmx.net>

Attached is version 1.0 of Flare CSH Calls for PHP. The included PHP file 
allows for easily adding WebHelp CSH calls to any PHP application. The file 
includes two functions, one is the main function generating the link for 
accessing the help. The second function is a wrapper for the first function to 
make CSH calls easier by setting system wide variables, such as the one 
storing the location of the Default_CSH.htm file.

The functions are published under the GNU Lesser General Public License.

This announcement is also made on the MadCap Flare Forums.

I hope you will like it.

David
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From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 21:24:28 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:24:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478C0846.2060909@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>	<478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>
	<478C0846.2060909@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <478C195C.1060303@nopersonal.info>

Hans Kaspersetz wrote:
> So my guess is that the address the mail is coming from doesn't exist or 
> the headers are malformed.  Send us the complete headers for on of your 
> generated emails.
> 
> It should look like:
> 
> Subject: foo bar
> From: blah blah <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:09:03 -0600
> To: "Blah blah" <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>
> Return-path: <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>
> Envelope-to: blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com
> Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:09:01 -0500
> Received: from [189.149.170.20] (helo=[192.168.0.198]) by 
> host.cxdhosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.68) 
> (envelope-from <blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com>) id 1JEaIR-0006mC-1b for 
> blahblah at cyberxdesigns.com; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:08:55 -0500
> Message-ID: <478C07AF.9 at cyberxdesigns.com>
> User-Agent:
> Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)
> 
> 
> That will start to help us pin point what the problem is.
> 
> Hans

Thanks, Hans. Here are the headers:

Return-path: <nobody at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
Envelope-to: recipient3 at example.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:49:12 -0600
Received: from nobody by hosting.company.com with local (Exim 4.68)
	(envelope-from <nobody at mercury.hostspectrum.com>)
	id 1JEavQ-0007T3-9u; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:49:12 -0600
To: recipient1 at example.com
Subject: Newsletter Request
From: me at example.com
To: recipient2 at example.com
Cc: recipient3 at example.com
Reply-To: me at example.com
Message-Id: <E1JEavQ-0007T3-9u at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:49:12 -0600

Hmmm, I wonder why "Envelope-to:" is the same as "Cc:" in the headers? 
Anyway, here's my code for creating the headers & sending the mail:

/* code to initialize other variables, validate & filter incoming data, 
etc. */

// initialize variables
$to = 'recipient1 at example.com';
$subject = 'Newsletter Request';

// build message
$message = "\nName: $name\n\n";
$message .= "E-mail: $email\n\n";
$message .= "Received from IP: $ip on $timestamp\n\n";
$message .= "-----------------\n\n";
$message .= "This e-mail was automatically generated by your form 
processing script. The submitted data was also written to a CSV file on 
your server.\n";

// build additional headers
$additionalHeaders = "From: me at example.com\r\n";
$additionalHeaders .= "To: recipient2 at example.com\r\n";
$additionalHeaders .= "Cc: recipient3 at example.com\r\n";
$additionalHeaders .= "Return-Path: -f me at example.com\r\n";
$additionalHeaders .= "Reply-To: me at example.com\r\n";

if (!isset($error)) {
     $mailSent = mail($to, $subject, $message, $additionalHeaders);
    /* code to write to csv file */
}

/* a few more lines of code to handle errors & close script */

Regards,
Bev



From ramons at gmx.net  Mon Jan 14 21:29:28 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:29:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Concatenation
Message-ID: <478C1A88.9040001@gmx.net>

Hi!

I saw this in email thread going on:

$message = "\nName: $name\n\n";
$message .= "E-mail: $email\n\n";

Is that doing the same as
$message = "\nName: $name\n\n";
$message = $message."E-mail: $email\n\n";


???


David


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Mon Jan 14 21:53:24 2008
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:53:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Concatenation
In-Reply-To: <478C1A88.9040001@gmx.net>
References: <478C1A88.9040001@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.22.1363003724.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 09:29 PM 1/14/2008, David Krings wrote:
>Hi!
>
>I saw this in email thread going on:
>
>$message = "\nName: $name\n\n";
>$message .= "E-mail: $email\n\n";
>
>Is that doing the same as
>$message = "\nName: $name\n\n";
>$message = $message."E-mail: $email\n\n";

Yes. It's similar to using the "+=" or "-=" operator combinations:

$i = 1;
$i += 2;
echo $i;

will print 3.

Ken 



From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 21:59:17 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:59:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Installing PHP/MySQL on in-house MS server
Message-ID: <478C2185.2010600@nopersonal.info>

I have a potential client referred to me by their network guy. The 
client wants a simple CMS, which I'm comfortable doing. I'm basically 
subbing as the network guy will handle the paper and mark up my rate by 
a certain number of percentage points.

The client is running Windows Server 2003 in-house. Neither PHP nor 
MySQL is installed, and those are the only things I know. The network 
guy is aware of this and says he prefers to keep their server in-house, 
but can get outside hosting if necessary. He said I'm welcome to install 
PHP/MySQL on the in-house server, but I'd have to configure them myself.

That prospect terrifies me as I'm not that far past past newbie stage. 
I've been reading up on PHP security, but don't feel the least bit 
qualified to _securely_ set up & configure things up in a production 
environment as the only installations I've done have been on my home LAN 
for testing purposes.

I'd love to learn how to do it, but not the expense of potentially 
exposing the client to a massive security breach and making myself look 
like a fool. I _do_ need to tell the network guy to just go ahead and 
find a hosting company, right?

TIA,
Bev



From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Mon Jan 14 22:29:20 2008
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans Kaspersetz)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:29:20 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478C195C.1060303@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>	<478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>	<478C0846.2060909@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<478C195C.1060303@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478C2890.30009@cyberxdesigns.com>


>
> Thanks, Hans. Here are the headers:
>
> Return-path: <nobody at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
> Envelope-to: recipient3 at example.com
> Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:49:12 -0600
> Received: from nobody by hosting.company.com with local (Exim 4.68)
>     (envelope-from <nobody at mercury.hostspectrum.com>)
>     id 1JEavQ-0007T3-9u; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:49:12 -0600
> To: recipient1 at example.com
> Subject: Newsletter Request
> From: me at example.com
> To: recipient2 at example.com
> Cc: recipient3 at example.com
> Reply-To: me at example.com
> Message-Id: <E1JEavQ-0007T3-9u at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:49:12 -0600
>
>
>
> // build additional headers
> $additionalHeaders = "From: me at example.com\r\n";
> $additionalHeaders .= "To: recipient2 at example.com\r\n";
> $additionalHeaders .= "Cc: recipient3 at example.com\r\n";
> $additionalHeaders .= "Return-Path: -f me at example.com\r\n";
> $additionalHeaders .= "Reply-To: me at example.com\r\n";
>
>
Well, as I suspected you definitely have some problems in your header 
and the address the mail is coming from doesn't exist in the real 
world.  The first thing to correct is the line:  $additionalHeaders .= 
"Return-Path: -f me at example.com\r\n";  It is non-sense drop it all together.

Then make your mail() call something like this:  $mailSent = mail($to, 
$subject, $message, $additionalHeaders, "-f me at example.com").  It is a 
little late any my eyes are dry, but that should go a long way to fixing 
you up.  However, this will only work if your host allows you to 
override with the -f flag.  Make the changes and send us the new headers.

In any event, you mail is not being routed by Google and the like 
because your Return-Path is not being set to an address that exists in 
the real world. 

Hans


From lists at nopersonal.info  Mon Jan 14 23:15:02 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:15:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478C2890.30009@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>	<478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>	<478C0846.2060909@cyberxdesigns.com>	<478C195C.1060303@nopersonal.info>
	<478C2890.30009@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <478C3346.2070001@nopersonal.info>

Hans Kaspersetz wrote:
>> // build additional headers
>> $additionalHeaders = "From: me at example.com\r\n";
>> $additionalHeaders .= "To: recipient2 at example.com\r\n";
>> $additionalHeaders .= "Cc: recipient3 at example.com\r\n";
>> $additionalHeaders .= "Return-Path: -f me at example.com\r\n";
>> $additionalHeaders .= "Reply-To: me at example.com\r\n";
>>
>>
> Well, as I suspected you definitely have some problems in your header 
> and the address the mail is coming from doesn't exist in the real 
> world.  The first thing to correct is the line:  $additionalHeaders .= 
> "Return-Path: -f me at example.com\r\n";  It is non-sense drop it all 
> together.

Done.

> Then make your mail() call something like this:  $mailSent = mail($to, 
> $subject, $message, $additionalHeaders, "-f me at example.com").  It is a 
> little late any my eyes are dry, but that should go a long way to fixing 
> you up.  However, this will only work if your host allows you to 
> override with the -f flag.  Make the changes and send us the new headers.

Done. All emails bounced with the following msg:

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its 
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

   recipient1 at example.com
     Mail sent by user nobody being discarded due to sender restrictions 
in WHM->Tweak Settings
   recipient2 at example.com
     Mail sent by user nobody being discarded due to sender restrictions 
in WHM->Tweak Settings
   recipient3 at example.com
     Mail sent by user nobody being discarded due to sender restrictions 
in WHM->Tweak Settings

New headers from bounce msg:

Return-path: <>
Envelope-to: me at example.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:54:45 -0600
Received: from mailnull by mercury.hostspectrum.com with local (Exim 4.68)
	id 1JEcsv-0000He-LN
	for me at example.com; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:54:45 -0600
X-Failed-Recipients: recipient1 at example.com,
   recipient2 at example.com,
   recipient3 at example.com
Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
To: me at example.com
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
Message-Id: <E1JEcsv-0000He-LN at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:54:45 -0600

> In any event, you mail is not being routed by Google and the like 
> because your Return-Path is not being set to an address that exists in 
> the real world.

Duly noted; thanks.

Regards,
Bev





From elharo at metalab.unc.edu  Mon Jan 14 23:40:09 2008
From: elharo at metalab.unc.edu (Elliotte Rusty Harold)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:40:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
	<478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>

Kenneth Downs wrote:

> A content-free emotive statement.
> It would be more accurate to say that it follows a set of principles you 
> do not share, namely, weak typing.  We would expect you as a java dude 
> to prefer strong typing.  Strong typing to me is inappropriate in a web 
> layer, and reduces my productivity.  Is it insane?  No, just 
> incompatible with my design goals and methods.
> 

The issue is neither strong nor weak typing. The issue is the violation 
of basic Aristotelian logic.

-- 
Elliotte Rusty Harold  elharo at metalab.unc.edu
Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published!
http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/


From anoland at indigente.net  Tue Jan 15 08:18:07 2008
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:18:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] xls output: localhost works, www doesn't
In-Reply-To: <000b01c85714$5559a580$0501a8c0@adam>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0712111918030.376-100000@bitblit.net>
	<475F318F.7060104@projectskyline.com>
	<E3497AD3-EFE0-4CF0-A35F-43B4566D1530@sala.ca>
	<000b01c85714$5559a580$0501a8c0@adam>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930801150518t35d76f4bg92522f9b8e12f418@mail.gmail.com>

Try an ob_clean() before sending the header. That way you make sure there
are no extra LF/CR in your output.

On 1/14/08, Rick Retzko <rick at click-rick.net> wrote:
>
> Hi all - Hopefully one of you have seen this and can quickly point me to
> the
> error of my ways.
>
> I need to output small files from mysql database to the user via excel
> files. I'm using the following class to do this:
>
> private function output_file(){
>                 //output the file to the user
>                 header("Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel;
> name='excel'");
>                 header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
> filename={$this->_file_name}");
>                 header("Pragma: no-cache");
>                 header("Expires:0");
>                 echo "{$this->_export_string}";
>                 exit();
>         }
>
> This works perfectly on localhost, but when I move it to my www site, it
> outputs the data onto the screen.
>
> I've tried using "header('Content-Type: application/octet-stream');" as
> well, with the same results.
>
> All help is appreciated!
>
> Best Regards -
>
> Rick
> ============
> MFR Holdings, LLC
> rick at click-rick.net
> 201.755.4083
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Tue Jan 15 08:41:02 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:41:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>	<478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
	<478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <478CB7EE.7000203@tgaconnect.com>

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> Kenneth Downs wrote:
> 
>> A content-free emotive statement.
>> It would be more accurate to say that it follows a set of principles 
>> you do not share, namely, weak typing.  We would expect you as a java 
>> dude to prefer strong typing.  Strong typing to me is inappropriate in 
>> a web layer, and reduces my productivity.  Is it insane?  No, just 
>> incompatible with my design goals and methods.
>>
> 
> The issue is neither strong nor weak typing. The issue is the violation 
> of basic Aristotelian logic.
> 

I confess I am somewhat confused  by what you mean by
"violation of basic Aristotelian logic".

Aristotle argues (in 'On Interpretation') that a single assertion must 
always either affirm or deny a single predicate of a single subject.
(cf: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-logic/#PreStrAss )

That is to say (according to Aristotle) assertions (apophanseis) are
either 'True' or 'Not True'.

That logic is the basis of two-valued first order predicate calculus.
(which is the fancy way of saying Boolean Algebra)

Michael Southwell says:
"these answers are exactly right, given that $a is an integer,
$b and $c are strings, and $d is unset..."

That is there are three possible states:
'True', 'Not True', and 'Undefined'

And,we are dealing with three-valued first order predicate calculus.

Now if you are saying Aristotelian logic doesn't apply here,
then I would heartily agree.

But if you are saying Aristotelian logic should apply here
then I don't understand how you get to that conclusion.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 09:43:53 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:43:53 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478C3346.2070001@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com> <478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>
	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>
	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info> <478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>
	<478C0846.2060909@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<478C195C.1060303@nopersonal.info> <478C2890.30009@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<478C3346.2070001@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801150643k90ce512i88836d2b0cb8e85a@mail.gmail.com>

Not to get off the topic of debugging your particular problem, but
I've always used SwiftMailer (http://www.swiftmailer.org/), which is
all OO and has many tips on correct usage.

- jake

On Jan 14, 2008 11:15 PM, B.A.S. <lists at nopersonal.info> wrote:
> Hans Kaspersetz wrote:
> >> // build additional headers
> >> $additionalHeaders = "From: me at example.com\r\n";
> >> $additionalHeaders .= "To: recipient2 at example.com\r\n";
> >> $additionalHeaders .= "Cc: recipient3 at example.com\r\n";
> >> $additionalHeaders .= "Return-Path: -f me at example.com\r\n";
> >> $additionalHeaders .= "Reply-To: me at example.com\r\n";
> >>
> >>
> > Well, as I suspected you definitely have some problems in your header
> > and the address the mail is coming from doesn't exist in the real
> > world.  The first thing to correct is the line:  $additionalHeaders .=
> > "Return-Path: -f me at example.com\r\n";  It is non-sense drop it all
> > together.
>
> Done.
>
> > Then make your mail() call something like this:  $mailSent = mail($to,
> > $subject, $message, $additionalHeaders, "-f me at example.com").  It is a
> > little late any my eyes are dry, but that should go a long way to fixing
> > you up.  However, this will only work if your host allows you to
> > override with the -f flag.  Make the changes and send us the new headers.
>
> Done. All emails bounced with the following msg:
>
> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
>
>    recipient1 at example.com
>      Mail sent by user nobody being discarded due to sender restrictions
> in WHM->Tweak Settings
>    recipient2 at example.com
>      Mail sent by user nobody being discarded due to sender restrictions
> in WHM->Tweak Settings
>    recipient3 at example.com
>      Mail sent by user nobody being discarded due to sender restrictions
> in WHM->Tweak Settings
>
> New headers from bounce msg:
>
> Return-path: <>
> Envelope-to: me at example.com
> Delivery-date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:54:45 -0600
> Received: from mailnull by mercury.hostspectrum.com with local (Exim 4.68)
>         id 1JEcsv-0000He-LN
>         for me at example.com; Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:54:45 -0600
> X-Failed-Recipients: recipient1 at example.com,
>    recipient2 at example.com,
>    recipient3 at example.com
> Auto-Submitted: auto-replied
> From: Mail Delivery System <Mailer-Daemon at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
> To: me at example.com
> Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
> Message-Id: <E1JEcsv-0000He-LN at mercury.hostspectrum.com>
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:54:45 -0600
>
> > In any event, you mail is not being routed by Google and the like
> > because your Return-Path is not being set to an address that exists in
> > the real world.
>
> Duly noted; thanks.
>
> Regards,
> Bev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Tue Jan 15 10:15:26 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:15:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu> <477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu> <478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
	<478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <20080115151526.GA17461@panix.com>

Hi Elliotte:

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 11:40:09PM -0500, Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> 
> The issue is neither strong nor weak typing. The issue is the violation 
> of basic Aristotelian logic.

There is logic to the process.  You just need to know what the logic is.  
And you have to keep in mind that algebraic equations don't apply when 
comparing apples and oranges.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Tue Jan 15 10:20:18 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:20:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801140822s5d592dcfx3d9075e43147117@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu> <477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu> <478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
	<8f0676b40801140822s5d592dcfx3d9075e43147117@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080115152018.GB17461@panix.com>

Hey John:

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 11:22:44AM -0500, John Campbell wrote:
> 
> If you still don't understand the problem, then take this quiz:
> what is the output of the following statements?
> var_dump(true + true);
> var_dump(null < 0);
> var_dump(null < -1);
> var_dump(null < 1);

The third one tripped me up.  It's TRUE.  I expected it to be false under 
the assumption that null == 0 in most PHP contexts.  But it seems like 
it's really nothing/null in this context.  Since null is nothing and a 
negative number is something, it makes some sort of sense.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Tue Jan 15 10:29:39 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:29:39 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Installing PHP/MySQL on in-house MS server
In-Reply-To: <478C2185.2010600@nopersonal.info>
References: <478C2185.2010600@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <20080115152939.GC17461@panix.com>

On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 09:59:17PM -0500, B.A.S. wrote:

> but can get outside hosting if necessary. He said I'm welcome to install 
> PHP/MySQL on the in-house server, but I'd have to configure them myself.

Installing MySQL on Windows is pretty easy and can be done securely.  An 
important factor is setting it up the MySQL service to run as a 
non-privileged user.  My MySQL Basics tutorial page gives you step by 
step instructions on how to do that:

http://www.analysisandsolutions.com/code/mysql-tutorial.htm

Same kind of drill with Apache -- run the service under a non-privileged 
user.  Though you _can_ skip Apache by running PHP under IIS if they're 
crazy enough to use that.

But I'm a fan of getting someone else to manage the servers.  One less 
thing for me to worry about.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From lists at nopersonal.info  Tue Jan 15 10:34:43 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:34:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801150643k90ce512i88836d2b0cb8e85a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>	<478BE666.9070900@projectskyline.com>
	<478BEA18.40307@nopersonal.info>	<8f0676b40801141513s1181f945v87d19bc0f2600a96@mail.gmail.com>	<478BF307.30401@nopersonal.info>
	<478BFC80.5010700@nopersonal.info>	<478C0846.2060909@cyberxdesigns.com>	<478C195C.1060303@nopersonal.info>
	<478C2890.30009@cyberxdesigns.com>	<478C3346.2070001@nopersonal.info>
	<e065b8610801150643k90ce512i88836d2b0cb8e85a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478CD293.4030902@nopersonal.info>

Jake McGraw wrote:
> Not to get off the topic of debugging your particular problem, but
> I've always used SwiftMailer (http://www.swiftmailer.org/), which is
> all OO and has many tips on correct usage.

Thanks, Jake, I'll take a look at it.

Bev


From lists at nopersonal.info  Tue Jan 15 10:43:11 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:43:11 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Installing PHP/MySQL on in-house MS server
In-Reply-To: <20080115152939.GC17461@panix.com>
References: <478C2185.2010600@nopersonal.info>
	<20080115152939.GC17461@panix.com>
Message-ID: <478CD48F.6010107@nopersonal.info>

Daniel Convissor wrote:
> Installing MySQL on Windows is pretty easy and can be done securely.  An 
> important factor is setting it up the MySQL service to run as a 
> non-privileged user.  My MySQL Basics tutorial page gives you step by 
> step instructions on how to do that:
> 
> http://www.analysisandsolutions.com/code/mysql-tutorial.htm
> 
> Same kind of drill with Apache -- run the service under a non-privileged 
> user.  Though you _can_ skip Apache by running PHP under IIS if they're 
> crazy enough to use that.
> 
> But I'm a fan of getting someone else to manage the servers.  One less 
> thing for me to worry about.

Great info--thanks!

Bev


From elharo at metalab.unc.edu  Tue Jan 15 10:53:18 2008
From: elharo at metalab.unc.edu (Elliotte Rusty Harold)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 10:53:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <20080115151526.GA17461@panix.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
	<478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>	<478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>
	<20080115151526.GA17461@panix.com>
Message-ID: <478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>

Daniel Convissor wrote:

> There is logic to the process.  You just need to know what the logic is.  
> And you have to keep in mind that algebraic equations don't apply when 
> comparing apples and oranges.
> 

Yes, they do.

1 Apple != 1 orange

The problem arises when a = b and b = c, but a != c or b != a. Violation 
of commutativity and/or transitivity of equality is a major problem that 
makes PHP (and some other languages) confusing and unsuitable for 
teaching. In fact, most languages have this problem to greater or lesser 
degrees, but PHP is tilting strongly toward the greater end of that scale.

There certainly is logic to PHP, but it's insane troll logic. It is not 
a clean and elegant human logic like any normal person would expect and 
understand without years of reeducation. Of course to those of us who 
have had our brains rewired, this may seem normal, but it's not. We are 
the ones marching out of step with the band.

-- 
Elliotte Rusty Harold  elharo at metalab.unc.edu
Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published!
http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/


From paul at devonianfarm.com  Tue Jan 15 11:09:03 2008
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (paul at devonianfarm.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:09:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Boolean evaluation (PHP vs Java)
Message-ID: <48489.192.168.1.35.1200413343.webmail@192.168.1.35>

I've thought about this for a long time -- and a lot lately since I've been doing mostly Java and ASP.NET to earn my bread in the last six months.

One of the most controversial features of languages such as PHP and Perl is the lax evaluation of boolean values,  if you write

print $a ? "True" : "False";

You'll find that many different things evaluate false such as integer and float zero, the empty string, an empty array, a null,  etc.  Often this is a convenient behavior.  For instance,  if a function returns an empty array,  it's often reasonable to interpret this as a failure,  or a false value.

C++ and Java programmers express a lot of anxiety that programs written this way will have lots of problems.  My experience is that,  coding in PHP,  I run into a boolean problem once every couple of weeks.  On the other hand,  I find that I run into trouble with boolean values much more often when working in Java or C# -- the "false" value is different in every situation,  so I need to think about every if() I write and I sometimes make a decision that's wrong in a subtle way -- no wonder why they worry.

In PHP,  however,  you do end up with a "==" operator that's a little too permissive that thinks that "0"==false and also that "0"="" (empty string).  That is a PITB when you're searching for a substring which might be at the start of the string (position 0) or not in the string at all (false).  Then you need to use the "===" operator which is a little stricter than people often want -- the language probably could have been better designed.




From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Tue Jan 15 11:29:25 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:29:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>	<478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>	<478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>	<20080115151526.GA17461@panix.com>
	<478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <478CDF65.1090000@tgaconnect.com>

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:

> There certainly is logic to PHP, but it's insane troll logic.

Consider a table in a database like

name        color
-----       -------
bananas     yellow
apples      red
kumquats    NULL
lemons      yellow

When you select where color is not yellow
you get kumquats with your apples.

Some people claim that the (Boolean) algebra in
a database is insane because it produces
results which are sometimes unexpected.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Tue Jan 15 12:14:25 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:14:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Boolean evaluation (PHP vs Java)
In-Reply-To: <48489.192.168.1.35.1200413343.webmail@192.168.1.35>
References: <48489.192.168.1.35.1200413343.webmail@192.168.1.35>
Message-ID: <478CE9F1.5000003@tgaconnect.com>

paul at devonianfarm.com wrote:
>[...]
> One of the most controversial features of languages such 
 > as PHP and Perl is the lax evaluation of boolean values
If you look at
http://nyphp.org/phundamentals/variableevaluation.php

You will see a table which shows how variables can be tested.

Beneath the table the article says:
"This table demonstrates somewhat surprising results..."

It talks about "... 0 (the integer), FALSE, and NULL..."
The article also mentions that you have to take into
account variables which are unset (even though unset is
not a variable in a strict sense)

To me this is somewhat like in a database query
which selects from a column (attribute) which can
contain nulls. You have to add 'and column != NULL'
in order to take into account the fact that the
data is not guaranteed to be a strictly 'either/or'
situation.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From ioplex at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 12:14:31 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:14:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com> <477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>
	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>
	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu> <477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>
	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu> <478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>
	<478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu> <20080115151526.GA17461@panix.com>
	<478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801150914ub135ac3hf20c2125c9a28c03@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/15/08, Elliotte Rusty Harold <elharo at metalab.unc.edu> wrote:
> Daniel Convissor wrote:
>
> > There is logic to the process.  You just need to know what the logic is.
> > And you have to keep in mind that algebraic equations don't apply when
> > comparing apples and oranges.
> >
>
> Yes, they do.
>
> 1 Apple != 1 orange
>
> The problem arises when a = b and b = c, but a != c or b != a. Violation
> of commutativity and/or transitivity of equality is a major problem that
> makes PHP (and some other languages) confusing and unsuitable for
> teaching. In fact, most languages have this problem to greater or lesser
> degrees, but PHP is tilting strongly toward the greater end of that scale.
>
> There certainly is logic to PHP, but it's insane troll logic. It is not
> a clean and elegant human logic like any normal person would expect and
> understand without years of reeducation. Of course to those of us who
> have had our brains rewired, this may seem normal, but it's not. We are
> the ones marching out of step with the band.

PHP is not Mathematica. It's primarily a template based system for
emitting text so much of the logical details you're describing are
optimized for that purpose.

> Java I/O 2nd Edition Just Published!
> http://www.cafeaulait.org/books/javaio2/
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0596527500/ref=nosim/cafeaulaitA/

This is funny because I think one of the biggest warts with Java is
bloated poorly designed libs like NIO. As the author of JCIFS (the
Java CIFS networking client), which is pretty sophisticated about
multiplexing requests, I have some experience in this area and I have
found that Java is rather bad for writing efficient networking
clients. The limitations in the synchronized primitive is a problem
for us. We really need a simple condition variable but the concurrency
API bloated to the point where I want to implement a simple condvar
using synchronized but that's a non-trivial error prone exercise. It's
all very disappointing really since the language by itself is great.

Mike

> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Tue Jan 15 12:42:37 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 12:42:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860801150914ub135ac3hf20c2125c9a28c03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>
	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
	<478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>	<478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>
	<20080115151526.GA17461@panix.com>	<478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>
	<78c6bd860801150914ub135ac3hf20c2125c9a28c03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478CF08D.50609@tgaconnect.com>

Michael B Allen wrote:
[...]
> PHP is not Mathematica. It's primarily a template based system for
> emitting text...

Peter Yared (who gave a presentation back in '05) says many application
servers are basically 'text pumps'
http://peteryared.blogspot.com/2003/09/application-servers-2004-big-muffin-in.html

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From ramons at gmx.net  Tue Jan 15 13:14:26 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:14:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>	<478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>	<478C3929.4050300@metalab.unc.edu>	<20080115151526.GA17461@panix.com>
	<478CD6EE.1090709@metalab.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <478CF802.8000007@gmx.net>

Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> There certainly is logic to PHP, but it's insane troll logic. It is not 
> a clean and elegant human logic like any normal person would expect and 
> understand without years of reeducation. Of course to those of us who 
> have had our brains rewired, this may seem normal, but it's not. We are 
> the ones marching out of step with the band.

Ah, come on, I must be some sick dude then. Here is the list of programming 
languages that I dealth with in the past 20 years:
1 Commodore BASIC V2 (hobby)
2 Simon's BASIC (hobby)
3 Commodre 64 assembler (hobby)
4 Logo (on the C 64 and the Apple IIe) (high school)
5 QBASIC (x86) (hobby)
6 ANSI C (university)
7 Delphi (hobby)
8 VB 6 (work)
9 VB .NET (hobby)
10 Paradox ObjectPAL (work)
11 C++ (hobby)
12 C Sharp (hobby)
13 Java (university, hobby)
14 8088 / Z80 Assembler (work, hobby)
That is when I stopped and decided that I hate programming and programming 
hates me. And then I came across PHP and got hooked for the following reasons
a) the other languages are way too primitive or too outdated to do something 
useful with these days (1-5, 10)
b) the other languages are way too cumbersome and complicated for me to 
understand them (6, 11-14)
c) the other languages aren't in a) or b), but don't lend themselves well for 
web development (8,9)
Leaves Delphi out, which honestly didn't stick in my mind as neither good or 
bad. Oh, and I did some TurboPascal some long time ago, but I only recall that 
I did, but not when and why. I also tried Curl when it came out first (the 
language, not the PHP cURL module), but couldn't get that one either and 
ditched it quickly.

And what is particularly interesting is that I don't get the logic of C or 
Java. In my opinion, there is no single human factor to these languages, 
neither in their logic nor in their commands. In PHP, if you want to do 
something think of an English word that best describes the action and look it 
up in the function list. I often did well with this approach as it isbased on 
human logic. Same applies to the way I develop my scripts. I first write the 
commentary, then translate the spoken language into PHP code, which isn't at 
all a far stretch. I never managed to pull that off in Java as hard as I 
tried. I read books, took classes, looked at code, dug through tutorials - no 
matter what I can't make any sense on why Java demands things to be done in a 
particular way. OK, maybe it doesn't go against all human logic, but it goes 
against my logic which I think is of average quality.

I think it isn't accurate to state that PHP defies any logic, human or not. 
Look at bright minds like Gallileo, he was outcast for not marching with the 
band. And in the end he was damn right. The only beef that I have with PHP is 
that whenever it comes to something that has to do with time or date the 
functions coded by apparently american developers screw the rest of the world 
over.

David



From ioplex at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 13:21:56 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:21:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Web Services
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801151021m45befd19ie280db62ff9b078c@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/15/08, Tim Gales <tgales at tgaconnect.com> wrote:
> Michael B Allen wrote:
> [...]
> > PHP is not Mathematica. It's primarily a template based system for
> > emitting text...
>
> Peter Yared (who gave a presentation back in '05) says many application
> servers are basically 'text pumps'
> http://peteryared.blogspot.com/2003/09/application-servers-2004-big-muffin-in.html

There's one major issue with "The Donut Architecture" being web
services which is that without a single lock to coordinate the efforts
of everyone you have a race-condition nightmare. It's very important
to realize that each service must check a state variable with a single
authority. A database is ideal for that because it implicitly provides
a lock.

Meaning, if you have web servers A, B and C and A does some work and
indicates to B that it can do some work and then B sends C some work
... etc then it becomes very difficult to stop or move things in the
workflow. The key is to use a state variable in the database and
always check it before performing the next job. Unfortunately most
people do not realize this and end up with systems that are very
difficult to control.

Application server technology is one big game of Whac-A-Mole.

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Tue Jan 15 13:47:47 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:47:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Web Services
In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860801151021m45befd19ie280db62ff9b078c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801151021m45befd19ie280db62ff9b078c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478CFFD3.909@tgaconnect.com>

Michael B Allen wrote:
[...]
> Application server technology is one big game of Whac-A-Mole.


LOL -- This has a definite 'voice of experience' ring to it.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk  Tue Jan 15 15:56:05 2008
From: paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk (PaulCheung)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:56:05 -0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
Message-ID: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>

This might seem quite trivial or rather silly; But it is causing me absolute
havoc. However, each time I update a MySQL record I set an "update
indicator" on, the idea being, So as not to update the record more than 
once.
I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual other
way around. the question is, is it possible?? If so, what am I doing wrong?

here is what I want to do, If update_ind != "u"  submit update


<?PHP
 if (update_ind !=  "u")
    { <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
</BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>; }
?>

Thanks

Paul



From dorgan at donaldorgan.com  Tue Jan 15 15:58:18 2008
From: dorgan at donaldorgan.com (Donald J Organ IV)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:58:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
In-Reply-To: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
References: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <478D1E6A.1020001@donaldorgan.com>

Yes you can do this:
<?php
if (update_ind !=  "u")
   {
?>
<TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
</BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>
<?php
     }
?>

PaulCheung wrote:
> This might seem quite trivial or rather silly; But it is causing me 
> absolute
> havoc. However, each time I update a MySQL record I set an "update
> indicator" on, the idea being, So as not to update the record more 
> than once.
> I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual other
> way around. the question is, is it possible?? If so, what am I doing 
> wrong?
>
> here is what I want to do, If update_ind != "u"  submit update
>
>
> <?PHP
> if (update_ind !=  "u")
>    { <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
> </BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>; }
> ?>
>
> Thanks
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From sean712 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 16:01:07 2008
From: sean712 at gmail.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:01:07 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
In-Reply-To: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
References: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <d953ccea0801151301v6e703699u2b7bea9121ea3df9@mail.gmail.com>

This should work

<?PHP
 if (update_ind !=  "u")
   {  ?> <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
</BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD> <?  }
?>

-Sean
On Jan 15, 2008 3:56 PM, PaulCheung <paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

> This might seem quite trivial or rather silly; But it is causing me
> absolute
> havoc. However, each time I update a MySQL record I set an "update
> indicator" on, the idea being, So as not to update the record more than
> once.
> I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual other
> way around. the question is, is it possible?? If so, what am I doing
> wrong?
>
> here is what I want to do, If update_ind != "u"  submit update
>
>
> <?PHP
>  if (update_ind !=  "u")
>    { <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
> </BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>; }
> ?>
>
> Thanks
>
> Paul
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From ramons at gmx.net  Tue Jan 15 16:56:40 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 16:56:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
In-Reply-To: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
References: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <478D2C18.3030701@gmx.net>

PaulCheung wrote:
> This might seem quite trivial or rather silly; But it is causing me 
> absolute
> havoc. However, each time I update a MySQL record I set an "update
> indicator" on, the idea being, So as not to update the record more than 
> once.
> I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual other
> way around. the question is, is it possible?? If so, what am I doing wrong?
> 
> here is what I want to do, If update_ind != "u"  submit update
> 
> 
> <?PHP
> if (update_ind !=  "u")
>    { <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
> </BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>; }
> ?>

I know others pointed out different (better?) ways, but I use an echo in cases 
like that. That always works.

David


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Tue Jan 15 17:31:00 2008
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 17:31:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
In-Reply-To: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
References: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <20080115173100.544c7fo80gkgo0cs@www.rbnsn.com>

Quoting PaulCheung <paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk>:

> This might seem quite trivial or rather silly; But it is causing me absolute
> havoc. However, each time I update a MySQL record I set an "update
> indicator" on, the idea being, So as not to update the record more than once.
> I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual other
> way around. the question is, is it possible?? If so, what am I doing wrong?
>
> here is what I want to do, If update_ind != "u"  submit update
>
>
> <?PHP
> if (update_ind !=  "u")
>    { <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
> </BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>; }
> ?>

You want to echo the HTML:

<?php
if if (update_ind !=  "u")
    echo '<TD><a href="#"  
onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print</BUTTON></a><input  
value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>';
?>

Ken



From edwardpotter at gmail.com  Tue Jan 15 20:03:16 2008
From: edwardpotter at gmail.com (Edward Potter)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 20:03:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
In-Reply-To: <20080115173100.544c7fo80gkgo0cs@www.rbnsn.com>
References: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
	<20080115173100.544c7fo80gkgo0cs@www.rbnsn.com>
Message-ID: <c5949a380801151703x20fa1c3coab8d5f25baccd45d@mail.gmail.com>

this is where php gets a bit ugly.

Use echo, print, single quotes, double quotes, escape those
backslashes, use print <<<_EOT_, but now now you have an ugly indent.
I think perl has a bit better sytax for handling the embedding  of
html code:

qq|put all my ugly code here, variables, double quotes, you name it|;

Why can't we do something similar in php after all these years? Maybe
you can?  I just don't know about it.

:-)  ed

On Jan 15, 2008 5:31 PM, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com> wrote:
> Quoting PaulCheung <paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk>:
>
> > This might seem quite trivial or rather silly; But it is causing me absolute
> > havoc. However, each time I update a MySQL record I set an "update
> > indicator" on, the idea being, So as not to update the record more than once.
> > I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual other
> > way around. the question is, is it possible?? If so, what am I doing wrong?
> >
> > here is what I want to do, If update_ind != "u"  submit update
> >
> >
> > <?PHP
> > if (update_ind !=  "u")
> >    { <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
> > </BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>; }
> > ?>
>
> You want to echo the HTML:
>
> <?php
> if if (update_ind !=  "u")
>     echo '<TD><a href="#"
> onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print</BUTTON></a><input
> value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>';
> ?>
>
> Ken
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
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From max at neuropunks.org  Tue Jan 15 21:53:36 2008
From: max at neuropunks.org (max at neuropunks.org)
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 21:53:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
Message-ID: <20080116025323.B2A78284C8@finn.neuropunks.org>

Well, what about smarty?
You can have different functions output to different templates,etc, and smarty can do its own functions on the input or call yours...

-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Potter <edwardpotter at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:03 PM
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??

this is where php gets a bit ugly.

Use echo, print, single quotes, double quotes, escape those
backslashes, use print <<<_EOT_, but now now you have an ugly indent.
I think perl has a bit better sytax for handling the embedding  of
html code:

qq|put all my ugly code here, variables, double quotes, you name it|;

Why can't we do something similar in php after all these years? Maybe
you can?  I just don't know about it.

:-)  ed

On Jan 15, 2008 5:31 PM, Ken Robinson <kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com> wrote:
> Quoting PaulCheung <paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk>:
>
> > This might seem quite trivial or rather silly; But it is causing me absolute
> > havoc. However, each time I update a MySQL record I set an "update
> > indicator" on, the idea being, So as not to update the record more than once.
> > I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual other
> > way around. the question is, is it possible?? If so, what am I doing wrong?
> >
> > here is what I want to do, If update_ind != "u"  submit update
> >
> >
> > <?PHP
> > if (update_ind !=  "u")
> >    { <TD><a href="#" onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print
> > </BUTTON></a><input value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>; }
> > ?>
>
> You want to echo the HTML:
>
> <?php
> if if (update_ind !=  "u")
>     echo '<TD><a href="#"
> onclick="window.print()"><BUTTON>Print</BUTTON></a><input
> value="UPDATE" type="submit"></TD>';
> ?>
>
> Ken
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



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_______________________________________________
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http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jan 16 03:36:44 2008
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 00:36:44 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Why do "cool kids" choose PHP to build websites
	instead of Java
In-Reply-To: <20080115152018.GB17461@panix.com>
References: <477BB7B2.7090101@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020856hbab6e7bi6b180ffa6f0a06e8@mail.gmail.com>	<477BC92D.1020009@tgaconnect.com>	<e065b8610801020937y5794850bueb6a1095f6e76406@mail.gmail.com>	<477C19A6.9020109@metalab.unc.edu>
	<477C2AC6.2060203@nyphp.com>	<4788C2B4.2010803@metalab.unc.edu>
	<478B60D2.20107@secdat.com>	<8f0676b40801140822s5d592dcfx3d9075e43147117@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080115152018.GB17461@panix.com>
Message-ID: <17982-87660@sneakemail.com>

Daniel Convissor danielc-at-analysisandsolutions.com |nyphp dev/internal 
group use| wrote:

>Hey John:
>
>On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 11:22:44AM -0500, John Campbell wrote:
>  
>
>>If you still don't understand the problem, then take this quiz:
>>what is the output of the following statements?
>>var_dump(true + true);
>>var_dump(null < 0);
>>var_dump(null < -1);
>>var_dump(null < 1);
>>    
>>
>
>The third one tripped me up.  It's TRUE.  I expected it to be false under 
>the assumption that null == 0 in most PHP contexts.  But it seems like 
>it's really nothing/null in this context.
>


>  Since null is nothing and a 
>negative number is something, it makes some sort of sense.
>  
>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ gotta love that commitment to PHP! 


From rick at click-rick.net  Wed Jan 16 06:25:30 2008
From: rick at click-rick.net (Rick Retzko)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 06:25:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] xls output: localhost works, www doesn't
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930801150518t35d76f4bg92522f9b8e12f418@mail.gmail.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0712111918030.376-100000@bitblit.net><475F318F.7060104@projectskyline.com><E3497AD3-EFE0-4CF0-A35F-43B4566D1530@sala.ca><000b01c85714$5559a580$0501a8c0@adam>
	<1d8a0e930801150518t35d76f4bg92522f9b8e12f418@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002701c85832$81858740$0501a8c0@adam>

Thanks for the recommendation!  I've got it working now (pointing the form
action directly to the file doing the processing, then exit() at the end of
the process), but I'd like to be A LOT more confident that I understand why
its working!
 
Can anyone point me to books/articles/tutorial that focus on how PHP
interprets headers or what's happening in the background when you download
from the server?
 
Thanks - 
 
Rick
============
MFR Holdings, LLC
rick at click-rick.net
201.755.4083
 

  _____  

From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of Adrian Noland
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 8:18 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] xls output: localhost works, www doesn't


Try an ob_clean() before sending the header. That way you make sure there
are no extra LF/CR in your output.


On 1/14/08, Rick Retzko < rick at click-rick.net <mailto:rick at click-rick.net> >
wrote: 

Hi all - Hopefully one of you have seen this and can quickly point me to the

error of my ways.

I need to output small files from mysql database to the user via excel
files. I'm using the following class to do this:

private function output_file(){
                //output the file to the user 
                header("Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel;
name='excel'");
                header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename={$this->_file_name}");
                header("Pragma: no-cache"); 
                header("Expires:0");
                echo "{$this->_export_string}";
                exit();
        }

This works perfectly on localhost, but when I move it to my www site, it 
outputs the data onto the screen.

I've tried using "header('Content-Type: application/octet-stream');" as
well, with the same results.

All help is appreciated!

Best Regards - 

Rick
============
MFR Holdings, LLC
rick at click-rick.net
201.755.4083

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List 
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Wed Jan 16 07:05:16 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:05:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] OT: Shopping Cart that schedules bookings
In-Reply-To: <20080114113951.7xib0bny80gc48wk@mail.fluidhosting.com>
References: <20080114113951.7xib0bny80gc48wk@mail.fluidhosting.com>
Message-ID: <478DF2FC.5020703@beezifies.com>

paul at gubavision.com wrote:
> Does anyone know of a shopping cart that would allow the user to book 
> time with a service provider?  Much like buying a product but in this 
> case book time and date.
>

There are a number of open source projects for doing this, not sure 
about a shopping cart per se, they generally have more functionality 
than that(calendars to display the data, etc)

If you are still looking for this and those are acceptable, let me know 
and I'll pull up my past research.




From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Wed Jan 16 07:09:51 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:09:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478DF40F.8020107@beezifies.com>

A bandaid workaround is to use one of the PHP mail packages that 
supports sending through authenticated external SMTP servers.

The same way your PC's mail client sends.

I know Swiftmail supports this, I don't know about others.

It's slower to send that way, however you gain the ability to route the 
mail through multiple mail servers for testing to see if it is your 
local server that is causing the problem, or the program.

You will need SMTP servers that support some form of authentication.

My recollection is Swiftmail was one of the better packages because it 
supported "pop before send" verification, which is what many providers 
setup when they don't have the time to learn the intricacies of 
configuring their email server.


From hans at cyberxdesigns.com  Wed Jan 16 08:28:38 2008
From: hans at cyberxdesigns.com (Hans Kaspersetz)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 07:28:38 -0600
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
Message-ID: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>

Note sure if any of you have seen this yet, 
http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/.  MySQL AB was 
purchased by Sun Microsystems. 

Hans




From lists at zaunere.com  Wed Jan 16 08:31:26 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:31:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Sun acquires MySQL
Message-ID: <08c501c85844$185b34b0$49119e10$@com>

Good morning,

Just saw this coming across the wires...

http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/

Should make for an interesting day...  and year...

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  / ?www.nyphp.com 







From lists at zaunere.com  Wed Jan 16 08:33:57 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:33:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
In-Reply-To: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>
References: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>
Message-ID: <08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>

Heh, damn you Hans - beat me to the punch...

> Note sure if any of you have seen this yet,
> http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/.  MySQL AB was
> purchased by Sun Microsystems.

Yeah, this is verrry interesting...

H





From anoland at indigente.net  Wed Jan 16 08:42:00 2008
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:42:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] xls output: localhost works, www doesn't
In-Reply-To: <002701c85832$81858740$0501a8c0@adam>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0712111918030.376-100000@bitblit.net>
	<475F318F.7060104@projectskyline.com>
	<E3497AD3-EFE0-4CF0-A35F-43B4566D1530@sala.ca>
	<000b01c85714$5559a580$0501a8c0@adam>
	<1d8a0e930801150518t35d76f4bg92522f9b8e12f418@mail.gmail.com>
	<002701c85832$81858740$0501a8c0@adam>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930801160542p4165a02djaf82a86c343a2df9@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/16/08, Rick Retzko <rick at click-rick.net> wrote:
>
>  Thanks for the recommendation!  I've got it working now (pointing the
> form action directly to the file doing the processing, then exit() at the
> end of the process), but I'd like to be A LOT more confident that I
> understand why its working!
>
> Can anyone point me to books/articles/tutorial that focus on how PHP
> interprets headers or what's happening in the background when you download
> from the server?
>
> Thanks -
>
>

You should read up on output buffering and PHP's session handling,
specifically as it pertains to cookies. Since Cookies are sent via header()
the same applies to what you are doing by sending the XLS header.

Look here:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=php+output+buffering+cookie&btnG=Google+Search

and here:
http://guide.opendns.com/?url=php+output+buffering+cookie
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From brian at realm3.com  Wed Jan 16 09:17:22 2008
From: brian at realm3.com (Brian D.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:17:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
In-Reply-To: <08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>
References: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>
Message-ID: <c7c53eda0801160617u1a4931adk94eac8b072b1ce19@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, indeed it is very interesting. I wonder what you think about
this, Hans Z, having worked for MySQL. :D

Slashdot commentary here:
http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/16/135243&from=rss

On Jan 16, 2008 8:33 AM, Hans Zaunere <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
> Heh, damn you Hans - beat me to the punch...
>
> > Note sure if any of you have seen this yet,
> > http://blogs.mysql.com/kaj/sun-acquires-mysql.html/.  MySQL AB was
> > purchased by Sun Microsystems.
>
> Yeah, this is verrry interesting...
>
>
> H
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
realm3 web applications [realm3.com]
freelance consulting, application development
(423) 506-0349


From jusheehy at vassar.edu  Wed Jan 16 10:32:44 2008
From: jusheehy at vassar.edu (Julia Sheehy)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:32:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] 
	Re: xls output: --   from talk Digest, Vol 15, Issue 31
In-Reply-To: <63i186$1m2lqv@ironport02.vassar.edu>
References: <63i186$1m2lqv@ironport02.vassar.edu>
Message-ID: <478E239C.9090309@vassar.edu>

Dear Rick,

Adrian's suggestion is a good one.  I had this problem in a project (my 
first) summer before last. 
Just in case it would help,  this is what worked for me:

header("Content-Disposition: inline; filename={$this->_file_name}");

header("Content-type: application/vnd.ms-excel; name='excel'");  

header('Pragma: private');      

header('Cache-control: private, must-revalidate');

header("Expires: 0");


Message: 8 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:18:07 -0500 From: "Adrian Noland" 
<anoland at indigente.net> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] xls output: localhost 
works, www doesn't To: "NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org> Message-ID: 
<1d8a0e930801150518t35d76f4bg92522f9b8e12f418 at mail.gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Try an ob_clean() before 
sending the header. That way you make sure there are no extra LF/CR in 
your output. On 1/14/08, Rick Retzko <rick at click-rick.net> wrote:

> >
> > Hi all - Hopefully one of you have seen this and can quickly point me to
> > the
> > error of my ways.
> >
> > I need to output small files from mysql database to the user via excel
> > files. I'm using the following class to do this:
> >
> > private function output_file(){
> >                 //output the file to the user
> >                 header("Content-Type: application/vnd.ms-excel;
> > name='excel'");
> >                 header("Content-Disposition: attachment;
> > filename={$this->_file_name}");
> >                 header("Pragma: no-cache");
> >                 header("Expires:0");
> >                 echo "{$this->_export_string}";
> >                 exit();
> >         }
> >
> > This works perfectly on localhost, but when I move it to my www site, it
> > outputs the data onto the screen.
> >
> > I've tried using "header('Content-Type: application/octet-stream');" as
> > well, with the same results.
> >
> > All help is appreciated!
> >
> > Best Regards -
> >
> > Rick
> > ============
> > MFR Holdings, LLC
> > rick at click-rick.net
> > 201.755.4083



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From lists at zaunere.com  Wed Jan 16 10:39:08 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:39:08 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
In-Reply-To: <c7c53eda0801160617u1a4931adk94eac8b072b1ce19@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>	<08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>
	<c7c53eda0801160617u1a4931adk94eac8b072b1ce19@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005301c85855$ef212390$cd636ab0$@com>

> Yes, indeed it is very interesting. I wonder what you think about
> this, Hans Z, having worked for MySQL. :D

That I missed out on SUNW, err, JAVA:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=JAVA

> Slashdot commentary here:
> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/16/135243&from=rss

And here's the take from the Sun side:

http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/

Pretty interesting stuff... OpenSolaris/MySQL could be a powerful duo -
in addition, of course, to the existing de-facto Solaris/Oracle duo.

Maybe we'll learn more at March's meeting, when Sun is expected to
present...





From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 11:01:44 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:01:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
In-Reply-To: <005301c85855$ef212390$cd636ab0$@com>
References: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>
	<c7c53eda0801160617u1a4931adk94eac8b072b1ce19@mail.gmail.com>
	<005301c85855$ef212390$cd636ab0$@com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801160801v3ce7305i9468cefaaa45d971@mail.gmail.com>

> Pretty interesting stuff... OpenSolaris/MySQL could be a powerful duo -
> in addition, of course, to the existing de-facto Solaris/Oracle duo.

I think this is more about attaching a brand like Sun to the MySQL
database rather than trying to create a better Solaris MySQL stack.
"MySQL from Sun" has more credibility with enterprise customers than
"MySQL from MySQL AB".  It should be good news for LAMP developers,
because it will lead to more acceptance of MySQL in the enterprise
which increases demand for LAMP coders.   The best news here is that
we no longer have to worry about Oracle buying MySQL.

Regards,
John Campbell


From aw at sap8.com  Wed Jan 16 11:43:51 2008
From: aw at sap8.com (Anthony Wlodarski)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:43:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801160801v3ce7305i9468cefaaa45d971@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>	<08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>	<c7c53eda0801160617u1a4931adk94eac8b072b1ce19@mail.gmail.com>	<005301c85855$ef212390$cd636ab0$@com>
	<8f0676b40801160801v3ce7305i9468cefaaa45d971@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007701c8585e$f9cc6030$ed652090$@com>

They didn't buy MySQL but they bought BEA:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_7986939?nclick_check=1

Anthony Wlodarski
646-285-0500 x230
aw at sap8.com


-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org] On
Behalf Of John Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 11:02 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.

> Pretty interesting stuff... OpenSolaris/MySQL could be a powerful duo -
> in addition, of course, to the existing de-facto Solaris/Oracle duo.

I think this is more about attaching a brand like Sun to the MySQL
database rather than trying to create a better Solaris MySQL stack.
"MySQL from Sun" has more credibility with enterprise customers than
"MySQL from MySQL AB".  It should be good news for LAMP developers,
because it will lead to more acceptance of MySQL in the enterprise
which increases demand for LAMP coders.   The best news here is that
we no longer have to worry about Oracle buying MySQL.

Regards,
John Campbell
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php




From brian at realm3.com  Wed Jan 16 11:46:06 2008
From: brian at realm3.com (Brian D.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:46:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801160801v3ce7305i9468cefaaa45d971@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>
	<08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>
	<c7c53eda0801160617u1a4931adk94eac8b072b1ce19@mail.gmail.com>
	<005301c85855$ef212390$cd636ab0$@com>
	<8f0676b40801160801v3ce7305i9468cefaaa45d971@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c7c53eda0801160846q1357b57av8be49b7daa8981c9@mail.gmail.com>

"The best news here is that we no longer have to worry about Oracle
buying MySQL."

Preach on, Brother John.

I really, really hope they work out their licensing problems, too.
Just yesterday I was attempting to use mod_authn_dbd with MySQL, only
to discover that MySQL support was removed due to "licensing issues",
and to fix it one would have to recompile everything. It's not the
only time I've run into problems like that.



On Jan 16, 2008 11:01 AM, John Campbell <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Pretty interesting stuff... OpenSolaris/MySQL could be a powerful duo -
> > in addition, of course, to the existing de-facto Solaris/Oracle duo.
>
> I think this is more about attaching a brand like Sun to the MySQL
> database rather than trying to create a better Solaris MySQL stack.
> "MySQL from Sun" has more credibility with enterprise customers than
> "MySQL from MySQL AB".  It should be good news for LAMP developers,
> because it will lead to more acceptance of MySQL in the enterprise
> which increases demand for LAMP coders.   The best news here is that
> we no longer have to worry about Oracle buying MySQL.
>
> Regards,
> John Campbell
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
realm3 web applications [realm3.com]
freelance consulting, application development
(917) 512-3594


From lists at zaunere.com  Wed Jan 16 13:06:56 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:06:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] MySQL bought by SUN.
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801160801v3ce7305i9468cefaaa45d971@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478E0686.7090102@cyberxdesigns.com>	<08cc01c85844$720c2c80$56248580$@com>	<c7c53eda0801160617u1a4931adk94eac8b072b1ce19@mail.gmail.com>	<005301c85855$ef212390$cd636ab0$@com>
	<8f0676b40801160801v3ce7305i9468cefaaa45d971@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a501c8586a$94de6680$be9b3380$@com>

> > Pretty interesting stuff... OpenSolaris/MySQL could be a powerful
duo -
> > in addition, of course, to the existing de-facto Solaris/Oracle duo.
> 
> I think this is more about attaching a brand like Sun to the MySQL
> database rather than trying to create a better Solaris MySQL stack.
> "MySQL from Sun" has more credibility with enterprise customers than
> "MySQL from MySQL AB".  It should be good news for LAMP developers,
> because it will lead to more acceptance of MySQL in the enterprise
> which increases demand for LAMP coders.   The best news here is

Oh sure, but with Sun's OpenSolaris, one has to wonder if the more
attractive flavor of AMP could become OSAMP...

> that we no longer have to worry about Oracle buying MySQL.

And from the who-me-worry department, this quote sums it up:

> If MySQL goes the way of Java, maybe there isn't too
> much to worry about.

>From the PostgreSQL-General List...

H





From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Jan 16 13:12:50 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:12:50 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net>
	<47877919.2080807@secdat.com>	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net>
	<478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
	<4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
Message-ID: <9F4B00B9-6F8E-4B3B-B61D-A57C03579BEB@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 11, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Jim Hendricks wrote:
> How crazy would it be if PHP had namespaces and a namespace  
> registration.


Jon Baer posted some good links about namespaces in php... but I'm  
surprised no one posted this link:
http://php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.php




From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Jan 16 13:22:19 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:22:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wraqpped around HTML??
In-Reply-To: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
References: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <58D89769-3859-4296-B6C7-279E579D6800@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 15, 2008, at 3:56 PM, PaulCheung wrote:
> I am trying to wrap PHP coding around HTML coding and not the usual  
> other way around.

Actually... this is what php was originally designed to do (10+ years  
ago).

The other responses are all valid... but hmy favorite way of writing  
php that's enclosed by html is to use the alternative syntax for  
control structures (http://php.net/manual/en/control-structures.alternative-syntax.php 
):

<table>
	<tr>
	<?php if (update_ind != "u"): ?>
		<td>
			<a href="#" onclick="javascript: window.print()"><button>Print</ 
button></a>
			<input value="UPDATE" type="submit" />
		</td>
	<?php endif; ?>
	</tr>
<table>

I think that's the most readable way of doing it.  Often files like  
this are given a .phtml extension -- the Zend Framework defaults to  
this way of templating.  If you look at the compiled templates for  
Smarty, they also use this way of writing control structures.  It  
reminds me of Basic/VB.

If you use short tags, you can echo stuff like this:

<p><?= $myMessage ?></p>

which is nice because of how compact it is.  However, short tags don't  
play well with XML/XHTML files so I (and many other people) turn them  
off and must instead use the following:

<p><?php echo $myMessage; ?></p>

FYI... found this little snippet in the php documentation: "for  
outputting large blocks of text, dropping out of PHP parsing mode is  
generally more efficient than sending all of the text through echo()  
or print()."  http://php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.php

However, those kinds of little optimizations don't usually end up  
affecting performance by much... usually there's much larger fish to  
fry -- like database queries.




From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Jan 16 13:27:01 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:27:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478DF40F.8020107@beezifies.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info> <478DF40F.8020107@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <EBA1C552-4279-4A78-A30B-01C628E8663B@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 16, 2008, at 7:09 AM, Gary Mort wrote:
> [snip]... use one of the PHP mail packages that supports sending  
> through authenticated external SMTP servers...
> [snip...It's slower to send that way...[snip]

It was my understanding that it's better to send via SMTP though  
because it taxes your system resources less than using mail() --  
especially when you're managing a large email list.



From lists at nopersonal.info  Wed Jan 16 18:11:51 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 18:11:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478DF40F.8020107@beezifies.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info> <478DF40F.8020107@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <478E8F37.6080805@nopersonal.info>

Gary Mort wrote:
> A bandaid workaround is to use one of the PHP mail packages that 
> supports sending through authenticated external SMTP servers.
> 
> The same way your PC's mail client sends.
> 
> I know Swiftmail supports this, I don't know about others.
> 
> It's slower to send that way, however you gain the ability to route the 
> mail through multiple mail servers for testing to see if it is your 
> local server that is causing the problem, or the program.
> 
> You will need SMTP servers that support some form of authentication.
> 
> My recollection is Swiftmail was one of the better packages because it 
> supported "pop before send" verification, which is what many providers 
> setup when they don't have the time to learn the intricacies of 
> configuring their email server.

I've downloaded both Swift & PHPMailer (both provide pop before send), 
but since you're the second person to mention Swift I think I'll try it 
first. Thanks for the advice.

Bev


From lists at nopersonal.info  Wed Jan 16 20:00:32 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:00:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
Message-ID: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>

Hi Everyone,

I'm trying to move from being a rank beginner to an intermediate level 
of programming PHP. While practicing & trying to learn something new 
every day, I'm also reading up on security (Essential PHP Security by 
O'Reilly & Pro PHP Security by Apress).

Unfortunately, I still have a really tough time trying to work out the 
logic of what I want a script to do, and my code is pretty primitive & 
verbose because of that (I have to painstakingly step through each 
little bit of logic in order to wrap my head around anything).

What I should be doing to get to the next level? Should I read up on web 
application design? OOP? Just keep plugging away? What do you guys use 
when working out the logic of an application you're building? I'm 
guessing that would be some kind of flow chart?

What about IDEs? Because of my HTML coding & graphic design background, 
I'm still using Dreamweaver--would I perhaps learn faster or be more 
productive using Zend Studio (or even something less expensive like 
phpDesigner)?

Please forgive the numerous questions, but I'm 40+ years old and want to 
approach this professionally, not just be some hack who writes sloppy 
code for for beer & pizza money and doesn't care about the client.

TIA,
Bev


From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 20:30:55 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:30:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>

Couple of suggestions:

1. Really read the documentation available at php.net, it is the best
resource available online. At the very least, go through the the
Language Reference section (although you can ignore the sections
pertaining to PHP4). Additionally, anytime you're doing something with
a string or array, see if there is a function available for what
you're doing. I'd say 90% of the time someone has already done the
hard work and all you need to do is read the documentation. As a short
cut, typing  "http://www.php.net/foobar" into the address bar will
automatically search the PHP function list for any functions like
"foobar".

2. Learn a templateing system, my personal favorite is Smarty
[smarty.php.net] and get all of your HTML out of your PHP code. This
ties into a larger lesson for all programmers, that is learning
Model-View-Controller pattern
[wikpedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller].

3. See how the pros do it, download Drupal [drupal.org/download] or
Vanilla [getvanilla.com] or some other Open Source PHP project and
look at some of the conventions these developers employ. You need not
review every line, but get an idea for how these people organize their
code. Install the framework and see how things work.

That is how I've done things and I feel like I'm getting there. FYI, I
started using PHP professionally about 2 years ago, but most of what I
learned, I've accumulated in the last 6 months working as the sole
developer for a major PHP application. You won't necessary move on
from a noob to pro by just reading the documentation and doing the
exercises, find something to work on (maybe write your own database
driven blog) and throw yourself into it.

Good luck!
- jake

On Jan 16, 2008 8:00 PM, B.A.S. <lists at nopersonal.info> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I'm trying to move from being a rank beginner to an intermediate level
> of programming PHP. While practicing & trying to learn something new
> every day, I'm also reading up on security (Essential PHP Security by
> O'Reilly & Pro PHP Security by Apress).
>
> Unfortunately, I still have a really tough time trying to work out the
> logic of what I want a script to do, and my code is pretty primitive &
> verbose because of that (I have to painstakingly step through each
> little bit of logic in order to wrap my head around anything).
>
> What I should be doing to get to the next level? Should I read up on web
> application design? OOP? Just keep plugging away? What do you guys use
> when working out the logic of an application you're building? I'm
> guessing that would be some kind of flow chart?
>
> What about IDEs? Because of my HTML coding & graphic design background,
> I'm still using Dreamweaver--would I perhaps learn faster or be more
> productive using Zend Studio (or even something less expensive like
> phpDesigner)?
>
> Please forgive the numerous questions, but I'm 40+ years old and want to
> approach this professionally, not just be some hack who writes sloppy
> code for for beer & pizza money and doesn't care about the client.
>
> TIA,
> Bev
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 20:30:55 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:30:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>

Couple of suggestions:

1. Really read the documentation available at php.net, it is the best
resource available online. At the very least, go through the the
Language Reference section (although you can ignore the sections
pertaining to PHP4). Additionally, anytime you're doing something with
a string or array, see if there is a function available for what
you're doing. I'd say 90% of the time someone has already done the
hard work and all you need to do is read the documentation. As a short
cut, typing  "http://www.php.net/foobar" into the address bar will
automatically search the PHP function list for any functions like
"foobar".

2. Learn a templateing system, my personal favorite is Smarty
[smarty.php.net] and get all of your HTML out of your PHP code. This
ties into a larger lesson for all programmers, that is learning
Model-View-Controller pattern
[wikpedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller].

3. See how the pros do it, download Drupal [drupal.org/download] or
Vanilla [getvanilla.com] or some other Open Source PHP project and
look at some of the conventions these developers employ. You need not
review every line, but get an idea for how these people organize their
code. Install the framework and see how things work.

That is how I've done things and I feel like I'm getting there. FYI, I
started using PHP professionally about 2 years ago, but most of what I
learned, I've accumulated in the last 6 months working as the sole
developer for a major PHP application. You won't necessary move on
from a noob to pro by just reading the documentation and doing the
exercises, find something to work on (maybe write your own database
driven blog) and throw yourself into it.

Good luck!
- jake

On Jan 16, 2008 8:00 PM, B.A.S. <lists at nopersonal.info> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I'm trying to move from being a rank beginner to an intermediate level
> of programming PHP. While practicing & trying to learn something new
> every day, I'm also reading up on security (Essential PHP Security by
> O'Reilly & Pro PHP Security by Apress).
>
> Unfortunately, I still have a really tough time trying to work out the
> logic of what I want a script to do, and my code is pretty primitive &
> verbose because of that (I have to painstakingly step through each
> little bit of logic in order to wrap my head around anything).
>
> What I should be doing to get to the next level? Should I read up on web
> application design? OOP? Just keep plugging away? What do you guys use
> when working out the logic of an application you're building? I'm
> guessing that would be some kind of flow chart?
>
> What about IDEs? Because of my HTML coding & graphic design background,
> I'm still using Dreamweaver--would I perhaps learn faster or be more
> productive using Zend Studio (or even something less expensive like
> phpDesigner)?
>
> Please forgive the numerous questions, but I'm 40+ years old and want to
> approach this professionally, not just be some hack who writes sloppy
> code for for beer & pizza money and doesn't care about the client.
>
> TIA,
> Bev
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From lists at nopersonal.info  Wed Jan 16 20:54:38 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:54:38 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
	<e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478EB55E.9040608@nopersonal.info>

Jake, those are exactly the sort of tips I was looking for--thanks so 
much for the advice and for wishing me luck.

Bev

Jake McGraw wrote:
> Couple of suggestions:
> 
> 1. Really read the documentation available at php.net, it is the best
> resource available online. At the very least, go through the the
> Language Reference section (although you can ignore the sections
> pertaining to PHP4). Additionally, anytime you're doing something with
> a string or array, see if there is a function available for what
> you're doing. I'd say 90% of the time someone has already done the
> hard work and all you need to do is read the documentation. As a short
> cut, typing  "http://www.php.net/foobar" into the address bar will
> automatically search the PHP function list for any functions like
> "foobar".
> 
> 2. Learn a templateing system, my personal favorite is Smarty
> [smarty.php.net] and get all of your HTML out of your PHP code. This
> ties into a larger lesson for all programmers, that is learning
> Model-View-Controller pattern
> [wikpedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller].
> 
> 3. See how the pros do it, download Drupal [drupal.org/download] or
> Vanilla [getvanilla.com] or some other Open Source PHP project and
> look at some of the conventions these developers employ. You need not
> review every line, but get an idea for how these people organize their
> code. Install the framework and see how things work.
> 
> That is how I've done things and I feel like I'm getting there. FYI, I
> started using PHP professionally about 2 years ago, but most of what I
> learned, I've accumulated in the last 6 months working as the sole
> developer for a major PHP application. You won't necessary move on
> from a noob to pro by just reading the documentation and doing the
> exercises, find something to work on (maybe write your own database
> driven blog) and throw yourself into it.
> 
> Good luck!
> - jake


From gatzby3jr at gmail.com  Wed Jan 16 21:24:17 2008
From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:24:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EB55E.9040608@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
	<e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>
	<478EB55E.9040608@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <29da5d150801161824j3e1b62fduea860ba9f0e6b222@mail.gmail.com>

The best way I learned was just to do something that was relevant.  Even
today when learning new things, if I am just learning the theory and not
actually putting it into place I don't grasp it as well.  Make yourself a
homepage, and put the things you want on there.  Like sports?  Figure out
how to make a sports blog with predictions or whatever.  When I was
learning, I created my homepage with a blog, calendar, and a gallery because
that's what I wanted to create, and I learned the most from that.  Things
start to click when you're more engaged.

On Jan 16, 2008 8:54 PM, B.A.S. <lists at nopersonal.info> wrote:

> Jake, those are exactly the sort of tips I was looking for--thanks so
> much for the advice and for wishing me luck.
>
> Bev
>
> Jake McGraw wrote:
> > Couple of suggestions:
> >
> > 1. Really read the documentation available at php.net, it is the best
> > resource available online. At the very least, go through the the
> > Language Reference section (although you can ignore the sections
> > pertaining to PHP4). Additionally, anytime you're doing something with
> > a string or array, see if there is a function available for what
> > you're doing. I'd say 90% of the time someone has already done the
> > hard work and all you need to do is read the documentation. As a short
> > cut, typing  "http://www.php.net/foobar" into the address bar will
> > automatically search the PHP function list for any functions like
> > "foobar".
> >
> > 2. Learn a templateing system, my personal favorite is Smarty
> > [smarty.php.net] and get all of your HTML out of your PHP code. This
> > ties into a larger lesson for all programmers, that is learning
> > Model-View-Controller pattern
> > [wikpedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller].
> >
> > 3. See how the pros do it, download Drupal [drupal.org/download] or
> > Vanilla [getvanilla.com] or some other Open Source PHP project and
> > look at some of the conventions these developers employ. You need not
> > review every line, but get an idea for how these people organize their
> > code. Install the framework and see how things work.
> >
> > That is how I've done things and I feel like I'm getting there. FYI, I
> > started using PHP professionally about 2 years ago, but most of what I
> > learned, I've accumulated in the last 6 months working as the sole
> > developer for a major PHP application. You won't necessary move on
> > from a noob to pro by just reading the documentation and doing the
> > exercises, find something to work on (maybe write your own database
> > driven blog) and throw yourself into it.
> >
> > Good luck!
> > - jake
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Brian O'Connor
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Jan 16 22:23:00 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:23:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <29da5d150801161824j3e1b62fduea860ba9f0e6b222@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>	<e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>	<478EB55E.9040608@nopersonal.info>
	<29da5d150801161824j3e1b62fduea860ba9f0e6b222@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478ECA14.9020001@projectskyline.com>

Hello,

Yeah +1 on that. Find some stuff that interests you, and dig in. Keep 
reading of course and in between projects
create a sandbox and experiment with new stuff, with the goal that some 
of that will be used in your next project.

Try experimenting with smarty outside a customers application, and on 
the next job you get, employ it (if needed).

I think smarty is an excellent tool, that really helps remove html from 
php logic. Use it if you don't already.

I can think of more stuff later. I'm tired, heh.

Good luck!

- Ben

Brian O'Connor wrote:
> The best way I learned was just to do something that was relevant.  
> Even today when learning new things, if I am just learning the theory 
> and not actually putting it into place I don't grasp it as well.  Make 
> yourself a homepage, and put the things you want on there.  Like 
> sports?  Figure out how to make a sports blog with predictions or 
> whatever.  When I was learning, I created my homepage with a blog, 
> calendar, and a gallery because that's what I wanted to create, and I 
> learned the most from that.  Things start to click when you're more 
> engaged.
>
> On Jan 16, 2008 8:54 PM, B.A.S. <lists at nopersonal.info 
> <mailto:lists at nopersonal.info>> wrote:
>
>     Jake, those are exactly the sort of tips I was looking for--thanks so
>     much for the advice and for wishing me luck.
>
>     Bev
>
>     Jake McGraw wrote:
>     > Couple of suggestions:
>     >
>     > 1. Really read the documentation available at php.net
>     <http://php.net>, it is the best
>     > resource available online. At the very least, go through the the
>     > Language Reference section (although you can ignore the sections
>     > pertaining to PHP4). Additionally, anytime you're doing
>     something with
>     > a string or array, see if there is a function available for what
>     > you're doing. I'd say 90% of the time someone has already done the
>     > hard work and all you need to do is read the documentation. As a
>     short
>     > cut, typing  "http://www.php.net/foobar" into the address bar will
>     > automatically search the PHP function list for any functions like
>     > "foobar".
>     >
>     > 2. Learn a templateing system, my personal favorite is Smarty
>     > [ smarty.php.net <http://smarty.php.net>] and get all of your
>     HTML out of your PHP code. This
>     > ties into a larger lesson for all programmers, that is learning
>     > Model-View-Controller pattern
>     > [ wikpedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller
>     <http://wikpedia.org/wiki/Model-view-controller>].
>     >
>     > 3. See how the pros do it, download Drupal [drupal.org/download
>     <http://drupal.org/download>] or
>     > Vanilla [ getvanilla.com <http://getvanilla.com>] or some other
>     Open Source PHP project and
>     > look at some of the conventions these developers employ. You
>     need not
>     > review every line, but get an idea for how these people organize
>     their
>     > code. Install the framework and see how things work.
>     >
>     > That is how I've done things and I feel like I'm getting there.
>     FYI, I
>     > started using PHP professionally about 2 years ago, but most of
>     what I
>     > learned, I've accumulated in the last 6 months working as the sole
>     > developer for a major PHP application. You won't necessary move on
>     > from a noob to pro by just reading the documentation and doing the
>     > exercises, find something to work on (maybe write your own database
>     > driven blog) and throw yourself into it.
>     >
>     > Good luck!
>     > - jake
>     _______________________________________________
>     New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>     http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>     NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>     http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>     Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>     http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Brian O'Connor
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
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> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From lists at nopersonal.info  Wed Jan 16 22:30:34 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:30:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <29da5d150801161824j3e1b62fduea860ba9f0e6b222@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>	<e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>	<478EB55E.9040608@nopersonal.info>
	<29da5d150801161824j3e1b62fduea860ba9f0e6b222@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <478ECBDA.5090609@nopersonal.info>

Brian O'Connor wrote:
> The best way I learned was just to do something that was relevant.  Even 
> today when learning new things, if I am just learning the theory and not 
> actually putting it into place I don't grasp it as well.  Make yourself 
> a homepage, and put the things you want on there.  Like sports?  Figure 
> out how to make a sports blog with predictions or whatever.  When I was 
> learning, I created my homepage with a blog, calendar, and a gallery 
> because that's what I wanted to create, and I learned the most from 
> that.  Things start to click when you're more engaged.

You know, last year I got the opportunity to take over a custom built 
CMS that had been abandoned halfway through by the original programmer 
and that was a great (but harrowing) learning experience. I've also done 
a few login systems and have gotten pretty good with processing forms, 
but, you're right, I really should do more. I mean I should try 
something that I've never done before.

I already have a web site for my graphic & web design work, but I've 
always wanted to create a secure area where clients can review their 
project assets and such, so maybe I'll do that. A blog and/or photo 
gallery could be interesting too. Calendars scare me. :)

Thanks for the feedback,
Bev




From lists at nopersonal.info  Wed Jan 16 22:46:30 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 22:46:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478ECA14.9020001@projectskyline.com>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>	<e065b8610801161730g134b4eaapc40d040288a4f72d@mail.gmail.com>	<478EB55E.9040608@nopersonal.info>	<29da5d150801161824j3e1b62fduea860ba9f0e6b222@mail.gmail.com>
	<478ECA14.9020001@projectskyline.com>
Message-ID: <478ECF96.1060109@nopersonal.info>

Ben Sgro wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Yeah +1 on that. Find some stuff that interests you, and dig in. Keep 
> reading of course and in between projects
> create a sandbox and experiment with new stuff, with the goal that some 
> of that will be used in your next project.

Hi Ben,

Reading, yes. I keep a copy of the PHP functions reference on my 
nightstand and try to read about at least one new function per night. 
Hopefully more will seep in by osmosis. ;)

I do have a sandbox set up with a bunch of basic stuff that I go back 
and refer to as needed, but I really should the bar a little.

> Try experimenting with smarty outside a customers application, and on 
> the next job you get, employ it (if needed).
> 
> I think smarty is an excellent tool, that really helps remove html from 
> php logic. Use it if you don't already.

I've downloaded Smarty a couple of times, but never got around to 
installing it. Since you're the 2nd person to mention it, I guess I need 
to buckle down and get busy with it.

> I can think of more stuff later. I'm tired, heh.

If you do think of anything, let me know--I'm all ears.

> Good luck!

Thanks!
Bev


From ramons at gmx.net  Wed Jan 16 23:36:23 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:36:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478EDB47.7040203@gmx.net>

B.A.S. wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm trying to move from being a rank beginner to an intermediate level 
> of programming PHP. While practicing & trying to learn something new 
> every day, I'm also reading up on security (Essential PHP Security by 
> O'Reilly & Pro PHP Security by Apress).

That is never bad.


> Unfortunately, I still have a really tough time trying to work out the 
> logic of what I want a script to do, and my code is pretty primitive & 
> verbose because of that (I have to painstakingly step through each 
> little bit of logic in order to wrap my head around anything).

Welcome to my world, you are not alone.

> What I should be doing to get to the next level? Should I read up on web 
> application design? OOP? Just keep plugging away? What do you guys use 
> when working out the logic of an application you're building? I'm 
> guessing that would be some kind of flow chart?

What I do is write the commentary first. I write down each step that I know or 
think needs to be done in the respective sequence. It isn't as formal as a 
flow chart, but it does the same job: first think about what you need to do 
and then do it. Of course there will be changes while writing the code and 
when testing and fixing bugs, but that will happen no matter what you do. If 
you rather make a flow chart, go ahead, but you do want to add plenty of 
commentary anyway.

> What about IDEs? Because of my HTML coding & graphic design background, 
> I'm still using Dreamweaver--would I perhaps learn faster or be more 
> productive using Zend Studio (or even something less expensive like 
> phpDesigner)?

Well, I went through the odysee of IDEs and still plan on finishing my review 
of all the ones that I tested out. My three recommendations are LuckaSoft's 
EnginSite Editor for PHP, Waterproof's PHP Editor, and NuSphere's PHPEd. I use 
PHPEd as it has the best debugger implementation, not surprisingly as Dmitri 
???, the creator of dbg, works for NuSphere. NuSpehere costs money and they do 
show that they are a business quite drastically. You buy a license and get 
support and updates until the next version comes out, which is typically 6 
months later, so your benefits fade quickly. I find that a bit asanine, but 
they do put out a product that I think is work the money. See if they have 
some introductory deal. I got the smallest package for under 60 bucks. I used 
LuckaSoft's IDE before and think it is a great IDE and even as good or better 
than PHPEd if it wasn't for the debugger. It uses dbg as well, but in debug 
mode you have to stop at the beginning of each script and that turns old very 
quickly. I got a free license for EnginSite PHP because I did the German GUI 
translation for them. SO if you know a second language and they don't have 
that as GUI language then spend the two days translating and get a nice IDE in 
return. Waterproof's IDE has less features, but for the general development 
work it is on par with EnginSite. If you write to Waterproof and tell them 
that you do PHP as a hobby and that your projects are for yourself as well as 
friends and family to look at then they will give you a free private license. 
They are really nice about that. Uh, one more thing about Luckasoft, see that 
you get their MySQL client with the IDE if you decide to use Enginsite. It is 
the best MySQL client that I have seen so far. They also sell it as a 
standalone tool and it really is nicely done.

I'd get the Standard package from NuSphere and the Luckasoft MySQL client. 
NuSphere's Pro package has a MySQL client built in, but I haven't had a chance 
to check it out.

Now, some may recommend the Eclipse based IDEs. I found them to be horrible 
and truely not designed for PHP. Just syntax highlighting doesn't cut it. I 
also found those bolted on packages difficult to install and lacking a lot of 
features. I also tried Numega, but that didn't do it for me. I also tried Zend 
and I think that IDE was designed by a bunch of drunken monkeys. It is among 
the worst pieces of crapware that I ever came across. Unbelievable that they 
charge money for that. I guess some people like it, otherwise it wouldn't be 
so popular.


> Please forgive the numerous questions, but I'm 40+ years old and want to 
> approach this professionally, not just be some hack who writes sloppy 
> code for for beer & pizza money and doesn't care about the client.

Don't underestimate beer and pizza! I think the best approach is to schedule a 
lot of time and come up with a few projects that you are interested in. Then 
pick one, write specs for it, establish milestones, create the outline (either 
as comments or as flow chart), then star coding, and finally do a lot of 
testing. When you are done, take the project and put it somewhere in the 
corner of your hard drive and start over again. You will be amazed how much 
better you are now and how much better your code is. I work on a project now 
for three years and found myself in the position to write code for a task that 
I coded before in a different context. I didn't use the old code, but created 
new scripts. Turns out that the new ones are half the size, run more stable, 
use less variables and flags, require less db queries, and are just much much 
better designed and written. I ditched the old code and used the new code.
And don't get hung up on creating something that isn't there yet. I work on a 
picture and video archiver/viewer and there are tons available that are 
probably much better than mine. But with that approach you will quickly find 
out that everything was already coded before. Other than that, I completed an 
MP3 archiving/player system, started a bug tracking and CRM tool (was too big 
of a task for me), and spend some time writing a custom CMS for eLearning, but 
quit the job due to budget cuts (the feds needed the money for the useless 
wars rather than for social services for children and families).

And by all means ask as many questions as you can. Ask tons of questions. The 
answers that you will get will propel you to the next level. I don't think I'd 
be on the level I am at now if it wasn't for relentless asking on NYPHP Talk.


David


From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Wed Jan 16 23:38:36 2008
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:38:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate
  PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <mailman.23.1363003725.25290.talk@lists.nyphp.org>

At 08:00 PM 1/16/2008, B.A.S. wrote:
>Hi Everyone,
>
>I'm trying to move from being a rank beginner to an intermediate 
>level of programming PHP. While practicing & trying to learn 
>something new every day, I'm also reading up on security (Essential 
>PHP Security by O'Reilly & Pro PHP Security by Apress).
>
>Unfortunately, I still have a really tough time trying to work out 
>the logic of what I want a script to do, and my code is pretty 
>primitive & verbose because of that (I have to painstakingly step 
>through each little bit of logic in order to wrap my head around anything).
>
>What I should be doing to get to the next level? Should I read up on 
>web application design? OOP? Just keep plugging away? What do you 
>guys use when working out the logic of an application you're 
>building? I'm guessing that would be some kind of flow chart?


I would join one of the on-line PHP related forums. I joined the 
PHPFreaks forum <http://www.phpfreaks.com/forums/index.php> 2.5 years 
ago and found it very helpful.


>What about IDEs? Because of my HTML coding & graphic design 
>background, I'm still using Dreamweaver--would I perhaps learn 
>faster or be more productive using Zend Studio (or even something 
>less expensive like phpDesigner)?

I've never used Dreamweaver, so I can't tell you anything pro or con. 
I've used TopStyle Pro, since it's very good at HTML, CSS, & PHP 
editing. I would also recommend installing a local copy of 
Apache/PHP/MySQL on your everyday computer, so you have a place to 
experiment. I use xampp <http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html> 
on my Windows XP laptop. I've been able to develop code on Windows 
and upload to my Linux host with no problems.


>Please forgive the numerous questions, but I'm 40+ years old and 
>want to approach this professionally, not just be some hack who 
>writes sloppy code for for beer & pizza money and doesn't care about 
>the client.

Questions are one of the best ways to learn. And don't worry about 
being older, I didn't start to learn PHP until I was almost 50 (47 or 
48 to be almost exact).

Ken 



From jsia18 at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 16 23:48:20 2008
From: jsia18 at yahoo.com (Jason Sia)
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:48:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP HTTP POST not working
Message-ID: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am transferring to a new server, my code in php using curl with http post works very well.  However, when I transferred the file to the new server it does not work anymore.  I tried if php curl is working by simply accessing a webpage and displaying its contents but with no http post, it works fine and it displays the webpage however if I tried adding a http post it does not work anymore.  I've checked the phpinfo() and here is the output:

CURL support enabled 
CURL Information libcurl/7.15.5 OpenSSL/0.9.8b zlib/1.2.3 libidn/0.6.5
Here is the sample source code:

        $url = 'http://www.example.com';    
        $csv= 'username=user&password=password';
    
        $ch = curl_init();
    
        curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_URL, $url);
    
        curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_SSL_VERIFYPEER, FALSE);
    
        curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HEADER, 0);
    
        curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POST, 1);
    
        curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POSTFIELDS, $csv);
    
        curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION, 1);
    
        curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, 1);
    
        $result=curl_exec ($ch); 
        curl_close ($ch);



I use the same file in my old server and until now its working fine there but in my new server it does not work anymore.  Does this need any additional configuration in my httpd.conf or php.ini?



Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com 
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From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Thu Jan 17 02:36:24 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 02:36:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <EBA1C552-4279-4A78-A30B-01C628E8663B@beaffinitive.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info> <478DF40F.8020107@beezifies.com>
	<EBA1C552-4279-4A78-A30B-01C628E8663B@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <478F0578.207@beezifies.com>

Rob Marscher wrote:
> On Jan 16, 2008, at 7:09 AM, Gary Mort wrote:
>> [snip]... use one of the PHP mail packages that supports sending 
>> through authenticated external SMTP servers...
>> [snip...It's slower to send that way...[snip]
>
> It was my understanding that it's better to send via SMTP though 
> because it taxes your system resources less than using mail() -- 
> especially when you're managing a large email list.
>

Well, that really depends on your environment.

mail() can be configured to use SMTP or invoke sendmail directly.

Personally, for a really large email list, I'd prefer to invoke sendmail 
directly and dump all the messages into the queue at once.  Than I'd 
tackle deliverability from the email server side, not from PHP.  But 
that assumes a dedicated box where you can finetune postfix to your 
hearts content.

If your on a shared host, they don't like big sudden dumps of email 
because the outgoing mail from one person can clog the connection for 
someone else.  So instead, they prefer SMTP, especially authenticated 
SMTP so they can go scream at whoever dumped the big load of email on 
the server.

Also mail libraries like Swiftmail can be setup to throttle the link, ie 
send 10 messages, than wait a second, send 10 messages, wait a second, 
or send no more than 3 messages a second.

My personal feeling is if your going to be dumping huge amounts of email 
out on the net, get a VPS somewhere and set it up as a dedicated 
outgoing email server, and send through it with authenticated SMTP.  
Than you can manage and grow your VPN until you need a dedicated box.

Alternatively, there are tons of companies out there that already do 
this service for you, and many of them have API's you can access via 
REST, SOAP, or FTP.  So why not use them?


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Thu Jan 17 07:13:32 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:13:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <478F466C.9080008@tgaconnect.com>

B.A.S. wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I'm trying to move from being a rank beginner to an intermediate level 
> of programming PHP. While practicing & trying to learn something new 
> every day 

There are a number of subscribers to this list who are knowledgeable
and have projects.

One idea is to join a project which uses some technique you want
to learn. Chances are good that the developers will help
you -- especially when you consider that they already help
people with their understanding of PHP (and related subjects)
on this list.

NYPHP also has meetings. I would also suggest that you consider
attending (if you don't already) the meetings. There you can
talk with peers and exchange ideas and understanding.

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From yitzchas at touro.edu  Thu Jan 17 10:08:52 2008
From: yitzchas at touro.edu (Yitzchak Schaffer)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:08:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
Message-ID: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu>

Greetings all --

The current thread on beginner to intermediate has brought up Smarty; I 
have been wondering about the relative advantanges of PHP templating 
engines.  The only two I'm familiar with (superficially) are Smarty and 
PHPTAL.  I didn't find much discussion about them, but it seems to me 
that PHPTAL is a more pure templating environment, with greater 
separation of logic and content.  On the other hand, I think I've read 
that Smarty is particularly strong in terms of performance, given its 
template compiling.

Though I haven't heard much discussion, it seems like whenever I hear 
about templating, it's using Smarty.  Does anyone have any thoughts on 
Smarty/PHPTAL/other engines that may be out there?

Thanks,
-- 
Yitzchak Schaffer
Systems Librarian
Touro College Libraries
33 West 23rd Street
New York, NY 10010
Tel (212) 463-0400 x230
Fax (212) 627-3197
yitzchas at touro.edu
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From tom at supertom.com  Thu Jan 17 11:43:46 2008
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:43:46 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP HTTP POST not working
In-Reply-To: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <117286890801170843p21d7f569g3965a7c10c52505b@mail.gmail.com>

So what is in $result?

Anything in your error log?

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


On Jan 16, 2008 8:48 PM, Jason Sia <jsia18 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am transferring to a new server, my code in php using curl with http post
> works very well.  However, when I transferred the file to the new server it
> does not work anymore.  I tried if php curl is working by simply accessing a
> webpage and displaying its contents but with no http post, it works fine and
> it displays the webpage however if I tried adding a http post it does not
> work anymore.  I've checked the phpinfo() and here is the output:
>
> CURL support enabled
> CURL Information libcurl/7.15.5 OpenSSL/0.9.8b zlib/1.2.3 libidn/0.6.5
> Here is the sample source code:
>
>         $url = 'http://www.example.com';
>         $csv= 'username=user&password=password';
>
>         $ch = curl_init();
>
>         curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_URL, $url);
>
>         curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_SSL_VERIFYPEER, FALSE);
>
>         curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_HEADER, 0);
>
>         curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POST, 1);
>
>         curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_POSTFIELDS, $csv);
>
>         curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_FOLLOWLOCATION, 1);
>
>         curl_setopt($ch, CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER, 1);
>
>         $result=curl_exec ($ch);
>         curl_close ($ch);
>
>
>
> I use the same file in my old server and until now its working fine there
> but in my new server it does not work anymore.  Does this need any
> additional configuration in my httpd.conf or php.ini?
>
> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From lists at nopersonal.info  Thu Jan 17 14:45:12 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 14:45:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EDB47.7040203@gmx.net>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info> <478EDB47.7040203@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <478FB048.5030106@nopersonal.info>

David Krings wrote:
>> Unfortunately, I still have a really tough time trying to work out the 
>> logic of what I want a script to do, and my code is pretty primitive & 
>> verbose because of that (I have to painstakingly step through each 
>> little bit of logic in order to wrap my head around anything).
> 
> Welcome to my world, you are not alone.

That's always good to know. ;)

>> What do you guys use when working out the logic of an application 
>> you're building? I'm guessing that would be some kind of flow chart?
> 
> What I do is write the commentary first. I write down each step that I 
> know or think needs to be done in the respective sequence. It isn't as 
> formal as a flow chart, but it does the same job: first think about what 
> you need to do and then do it. Of course there will be changes while 
> writing the code and when testing and fixing bugs, but that will happen 
> no matter what you do. If you rather make a flow chart, go ahead, but 
> you do want to add plenty of commentary anyway.

Commentary is paramount--got it.

> Well, I went through the odysee of IDEs and still plan on finishing my 
> review of all the ones that I tested out. My three recommendations are 
> LuckaSoft's EnginSite Editor for PHP, Waterproof's PHP Editor, and 
> NuSphere's PHPEd. 

Thanks for the thorough reviews; that helps tremendously!

>> Please forgive the numerous questions, but I'm 40+ years old and want 
>> to approach this professionally, not just be some hack who writes 
>> sloppy code for for beer & pizza money and doesn't care about the client.
> 
> Don't underestimate beer and pizza! I think the best approach is to 
> schedule a lot of time and come up with a few projects that you are 
> interested in. Then pick one, write specs for it, establish milestones, 
> create the outline (either as comments or as flow chart), then star 
> coding, and finally do a lot of testing. When you are done, take the 
> project and put it somewhere in the corner of your hard drive and start 
> over again. You will be amazed how much better you are now and how much 
> better your code is. I work on a project now for three years and found 
> myself in the position to write code for a task that I coded before in a 
> different context. I didn't use the old code, but created new scripts. 
> Turns out that the new ones are half the size, run more stable, use less 
> variables and flags, require less db queries, and are just much much 
> better designed and written. I ditched the old code and used the new code.
> And don't get hung up on creating something that isn't there yet. I work 
> on a picture and video archiver/viewer and there are tons available that 
> are probably much better than mine. But with that approach you will 
> quickly find out that everything was already coded before. Other than 
> that, I completed an MP3 archiving/player system, started a bug tracking 
> and CRM tool (was too big of a task for me), and spend some time writing 
> a custom CMS for eLearning, but quit the job due to budget cuts (the 
> feds needed the money for the useless wars rather than for social 
> services for children and families).

I'm not a drinker, but, yeah, pizza is not to be underestimated!

What you're saying here is key to what I've been doing wrong: When I'm 
working on a web or print design project I document & organize 
everything and I have very specific methodologies I follow (worked out 
over years of trial & error), yet when I work with PHP I tend to 
approach things in a haphazard manner--i.e. I just dive head-first into 
the code and then splash around wildly trying not to drown.

That's not good. If I want to do this professionally then I need to 
treat even test/learning projects as if they were the real thing, just 
like my other projects. Thanks for helping me see that.

> And by all means ask as many questions as you can. Ask tons of 
> questions. The answers that you will get will propel you to the next 
> level. I don't think I'd be on the level I am at now if it wasn't for 
> relentless asking on NYPHP Talk.

I absolutely will do that.

Regards,
Bev


From lists at nopersonal.info  Thu Jan 17 15:17:06 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:17:06 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate  PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info> 
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info> 
Message-ID: <478FB7C2.1030907@nopersonal.info>

Ken Robinson wrote:
> I would join one of the on-line PHP related forums. I joined the 
> PHPFreaks forum <http://www.phpfreaks.com/forums/index.php> 2.5 years 
> ago and found it very helpful.

Thanks. I've visited the site before but not the forum--I'll definitely 
take a look.

>> What about IDEs? Because of my HTML coding & graphic design 
>> background, I'm still using Dreamweaver--would I perhaps learn faster 
>> or be more productive using Zend Studio (or even something less 
>> expensive like phpDesigner)?
> 
> I've never used Dreamweaver, so I can't tell you anything pro or con. 
> I've used TopStyle Pro, since it's very good at HTML, CSS, & PHP 
> editing. I would also recommend installing a local copy of 
> Apache/PHP/MySQL on your everyday computer, so you have a place to 
> experiment. I use xampp <http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html> on 
> my Windows XP laptop. I've been able to develop code on Windows and 
> upload to my Linux host with no problems.

I've got PHP installed on my primary computer and Apache/PHP/MySQL 
installed on a secondary one on my home network for testing purposes. 
The only problem I've run into is a situation where the server was 
running an old version of MySQL that caused a problem with importing 
tables. It was relatively easy to fix though.

>> Please forgive the numerous questions, but I'm 40+ years old and want 
>> to approach this professionally, not just be some hack who writes 
>> sloppy code for for beer & pizza money and doesn't care about the client.
> 
> Questions are one of the best ways to learn. 

Indeed they are. It's good to know you guys are tolerant of them. I was 
a little intimidated by the level of experience & knowledge I noticed 
here, but I figured as long as I asked reasonable questions no one would 
bite my head off. IOW not like some of the questions I often see in 
web-related forums like, "hI gUyZ! I just got a copy of Dreamweaver and 
I wanna build my first web site. I want it to be like YouTube. Can u 
tell me how to do it? BTW, can u also tell me how to set up a site in 
Dreamweaver?" Ummmm... to answer question #1, NO. To answer question #2, 
press F1.

> And don't worry about being older, I didn't start to learn PHP until 
> I was almost 50 (47 or 48 to be almost exact).

Well I'm 45, so I guess there's hope for me yet. ;-)

Regards,
Bev


From paul at devonianfarm.com  Thu Jan 17 15:30:23 2008
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (paul at devonianfarm.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:30:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
Message-ID: <35022.192.168.1.71.1200601823.webmail@192.168.1.71>

I've been all over the map.  Years ago I was against templating systems,  then I was a big fan of smarty,  now my templating strategy is the one that's used in symfony:  don't use a separate templating system,  but impose some discipline on the way you use PHP.

My answer would be different in languages that aren't as facile as PHP...  I would use a templating system in Perl, Java or Ruby,  but in a systems PHP,  ColdFusion or ASP.NET,  which were designed from the beginning to build web apps,  it's hard to develop a templating system which is better than the one the language gives you.

Study the "view" part of the symfony docs if you want to get a good picture of how do this,  but you don't need a heavyweight framework to get the benefits...  I built an MVC "microframework" in 80 lines of PHP and wrote another 120 lines worth of helper functions that dealt with common annoyances such as populating <select> lists.  The big concepts are:

* layouts: you need some mechanism for selecting a "master template" that your page appears in.  This looks like

<html>
   <head>...<title><?php q($title) ?></title>...
</head>
<body>
 ... header stuff ...
 <?php echo $real_content ?>
 ... footer stuff ...
</body>
</html>

Note that the master template is real HTML (<?php is a processing instruction) so you (or a designer) can edit it in dreamweaver or your favorite tools.

* partials: a partial is a PHP file that emits HTML that goes into slots like the $real_content slot...  With output buffering (see the ob_start function) you can capture the output of a PHP "template" and put it in a string for further processing.  With some work you can do this recursively,  so partials end up inside partials.

* helpers: these are functions that help you write views.  For instance, the q() function above is

function q($string) {
   echo(htmlspecialchars($q));
}

You'll need helpers to make form elements for you,  for instance,  something like

draw_select_list($name,$options,$selected)

where the $options are an associative array of values and display text.

Symfony has a mature view system that has caching and other advanced features (I wish I could say it was as mature in the data access department)

For my day job I'm working on an ASP.NET microframework that uses the same ideas.

----
Paul Houle
http://animalphotos.info/a/




From lists at nopersonal.info  Thu Jan 17 15:30:58 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:30:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478F466C.9080008@tgaconnect.com>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
	<478F466C.9080008@tgaconnect.com>
Message-ID: <478FBB02.2010702@nopersonal.info>

Tim Gales wrote:
> There are a number of subscribers to this list who are knowledgeable
> and have projects.
> 
> One idea is to join a project which uses some technique you want
> to learn. Chances are good that the developers will help
> you -- especially when you consider that they already help
> people with their understanding of PHP (and related subjects)
> on this list.

That's a great idea and one that never would have occurred to me. Thanks!

> NYPHP also has meetings. I would also suggest that you consider
> attending (if you don't already) the meetings. There you can
> talk with peers and exchange ideas and understanding.

I hope that when the days get longer and the weather warmer I'll be able 
to do exactly that. I live in Orange, NJ, so Manhattan isn't that far, 
however the closest NJT station is a local stop and the trains only run 
about once an hour (even less on the weekends). Then there's the 
question of getting back home--the train station isn't far from my 
apartment, but it's deserted at night. Being a woman I'm not real keen 
on the idea of being there after dark, you know?

Regards,
Bev


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Thu Jan 17 15:34:40 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:34:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Emails not being received when using mail()
In-Reply-To: <478F0578.207@beezifies.com>
References: <478BE40C.2040407@nopersonal.info> <478DF40F.8020107@beezifies.com>
	<EBA1C552-4279-4A78-A30B-01C628E8663B@beaffinitive.com>
	<478F0578.207@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <0D81677D-B24A-41E3-8DB4-99D63710DBBB@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 17, 2008, at 2:36 AM, Gary Mort wrote:
> Rob Marscher wrote:
>> On Jan 16, 2008, at 7:09 AM, Gary Mort wrote:
>>> [snip]... use one of the PHP mail packages that supports sending  
>>> through authenticated external SMTP servers...
>>> [snip]...It's slower to send that way...[snip]
>>
>> It was my understanding that it's better to send via SMTP though  
>> because it taxes your system resources less than using mail() --  
>> especially when you're managing a large email list.
>
> Well, that really depends on your environment.
> mail() can be configured to use SMTP or invoke sendmail directly.

Thanks for all the info.
I was trying to remember where I got that notion from... it's at http://www.swiftmailer.org 
  :
"It does not rely on PHP's native mail() function which is known for  
using high server resources when sending multiple emails. Instead,  
Swift communicates directly with an SMTP server or a MTA binary to  
send mail quickly and efficiently."


From david at davidmintz.org  Thu Jan 17 16:13:17 2008
From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:13:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478FBB02.2010702@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
	<478F466C.9080008@tgaconnect.com> <478FBB02.2010702@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <721f1cc50801171313g534e40f0q3991911d64a8af65@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 17, 2008 3:30 PM, B.A.S. <lists at nopersonal.info> wrote:

>
>
> I hope that when the days get longer and the weather warmer I'll be able
> to do exactly that. I live in Orange, NJ, so Manhattan isn't that far,
> however the closest NJT station is a local stop and the trains only run
> about once an hour (even less on the weekends). Then there's the
> question of getting back home--the train station isn't far from my
> apartment, but it's deserted at night. Being a woman I'm not real keen
> on the idea of being there after dark, you know?
>


Well, you could take some self-defense classes in addition to all your PHP
studies and carry some weapon such as one of those pepper spray things....
oops, getting OT.

Seriously, though:  welcome to the party. You will like it here, and I am in
solidarity with your situation, as I'm a sort of self-taught,
humanities-trained part-time hobbyist lightweight who aspires to do it
better than a part-time hobbyist lightweight... Things I've found helpful:

* Take a course from a good instructor, the programming language hardly
matters. I studied Java to no good practical professional purpose, but the
discipline and problem-solving practice was great for my programming
generally.

* Read those books and tutorials, but keep a skeptical mind. Times have
since changed for the better, but I learned some sloppy habits back in the
days of PHP3 because I trusted what I read.

* Learn to use Subversion, even if only so you will have a backup and so you
can roll back whenever you make a really terrible mess.

* Smarty is not a panacea nor a substitute for discipline. I used to be a
Smarty believer, now I'm more of a Zend Framework believer. (Yes they aren't
mutually exclusive, but we digress...)

* Don't get too obsessed with planning planning planning at the expense of
doing. I have been in that trap and have only recently recovered. (My
problem has been working 100% alone and lacking of a tech-savvy boss or
demanding customer to bust my chops, so I have had the luxury of saying "i
don't like it, this isn't good" and wiping out a project and starting over
four or five times.)

* Validate input, filter output (-:  !


-- 
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

The subtle source is clear and bright
The tributary streams flow through the darkness
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From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Thu Jan 17 17:06:42 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:06:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu>
References: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801171406i13527f4redc889bc5b97fb63@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 17, 2008 10:08 AM, Yitzchak Schaffer <yitzchas at touro.edu> wrote:
>  Though I haven't heard much discussion, it seems like whenever I hear about
> templating, it's using Smarty.  Does anyone have any thoughts on
> Smarty/PHPTAL/other engines that may be out there?

I don't like PHPTAL because it only works if the output is html/xml.
A templating engine should be capable of outputting emails, csv,
javascript etc.  I like smarty, and I like plain ol' php.  Templating
is built into php, unfortunately many people don't figure out how to
use it correctly.  Below is a class that provide smarty like
templating in less than 25 lines of code:  (I haven't tested it, but
there is no reason it won't work)

<?php

Class Simple_Template {
   var $_data;

   function Simple_Template() { }

   function assign($k,$v) {
      $this->_data[$k] = $v;
      return $this;
   }
   function fetch($template) {
      ob_start();
      $this->display($template);
      return ob_get_clean();
   }
   function display($template) {
      extract($this->_data);
      include($template);
      return $this;
   }
}

// hello.php
<?php
include 'Simple_Template.php';
$tpl = new Simple_Template();
$tpl->assign('title','My First Page')->assign('message','Hello
World'); // chainability is fun
$tpl->display('view.phtml');

// view.phtml -- this is the diplay logic.
<html>
<head>
<title><?php echo $title; ?></title>
<body>
<h1><?php echo $message ?></h1>
</body>
</html>

While this looks complicated for a simple hello world application, it
cleanly separates the application logic from the display logic.  Tack
on a url router, and you can have a "framework" in less than 50 lines
of code.  It's guaranteed to be really fast too.

Regards,
John Campbell


From lists at zaunere.com  Thu Jan 17 17:09:32 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:09:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Free Silverlight Event, Jan 26th
Message-ID: <038c01c85955$a311e3d0$e935ab70$@com>

Interested in Silverlight?  

Microsoft has invited NYPHP to the Silverlight 1.0 Firestarter, January
26th.

There is no cost for the event.

See details here:

http://tinyurl.com/393fsp

Looks like an interesting event to at least learn about this new
technology - I'll see you there.

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org  / ?www.nyphp.com 







From ajai at bitblit.net  Thu Jan 17 17:13:44 2008
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:13:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <35022.192.168.1.71.1200601823.webmail@192.168.1.71>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171713070.30734-100000@bitblit.net>

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, paul at devonianfarm.com wrote:

> Symfony has a mature view system that has caching and other advanced 
> features (I wish I could say it was as mature in the data access department)

Care to elaborate?

Also, have you played with Doctrine much?


-- 
Aj.



From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com  Thu Jan 17 18:35:11 2008
From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:35:11 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Amazon Merchants@ SOAP API problems
Message-ID: <1200612911.2455@coral.he.net>

Hi, 

Has anyone had any experience using SOAP with Amazon's Merchants@ API?

I have an XML file and a PHP script that is trying to upload it, and I 
can't figure out how to configure the WDSL file and I'm confused on a 
lot of the SOAP stuff, I think.

Had no problem getting the CSV with the old API to upload...but.
-------------------
Kristina 


From dell at sala.ca  Thu Jan 17 21:03:40 2008
From: dell at sala.ca (dellsala)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:03:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801171406i13527f4redc889bc5b97fb63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu>
	<8f0676b40801171406i13527f4redc889bc5b97fb63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14943873.post@talk.nabble.com>



John Campbell-6 wrote:
> 
> On Jan 17, 2008 10:08 AM, Yitzchak Schaffer <yitzchas at touro.edu> wrote:
>>  Though I haven't heard much discussion, it seems like whenever I hear
>> about
>> templating, it's using Smarty.  Does anyone have any thoughts on
>> Smarty/PHPTAL/other engines that may be out there?
> 
> Templating is built into php, unfortunately many people don't figure out
> how to
> use it correctly.  Below is a class that provide smarty like
> templating in less than 25 lines of code:
> 

I've been using a similar, light-weight template class for over 3 years now.
Personally, I can find a compelling reason to use anything else. To me, the
big advantages of a technique like this are:

* small code-base
* familiar code (no weird markup language to learn)
* easy to implement caching
* speed

Here are some links to more about this point of view:

http://www.massassi.com/php/articles/template_engines/
http://www.phppatterns.com/docs/design/templates_and_template_engines
http://paul-m-jones.com/?p=273
http://phpsavant.com/yawiki/ (also Paul Jones)

-- Dell

-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Templating-engines-tp14921320p14943873.html
Sent from the NYPHP-Talk mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



From anoland at indigente.net  Thu Jan 17 21:48:47 2008
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:48:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930801171848n2951710nea01ef3717becd86@mail.gmail.com>

I've always found the articles at IBM developerworks to be gems. They are
always succinct and at the same time give you just enough of a taste to keep
looking for the complete solution.

www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-php-read/
www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/top-projects/php.html
http://www.devshed.com/

The venerable melonfire too:
http://www.melonfire.com/community/columns/trog/archives.php


On 1/16/08, B.A.S. <lists at nopersonal.info> wrote:



What I should be doing to get to the next level? Should I read up on web
> application design? OOP? Just keep plugging away? What do you guys use
> when working out the logic of an application you're building? I'm
> guessing that would be some kind of flow chart?
>
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Thu Jan 17 22:08:28 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:08:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines -- chaining tangent
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801171406i13527f4redc889bc5b97fb63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3B5825C.BCA6%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/17/08 5:06 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Class Simple_Template {
...
>    function assign($k,$v) {
>       $this->_data[$k] = $v;
>       return $this;
>    }
...
> }
...
> $tpl = new Simple_Template();
> $tpl->assign('title','My First Page')->assign('message','Hello World'); //
chainability is fun

Just a short note to highlight an important, but tangential concept here --
chaining.

$tpl->assign('title','My First Page')->assign('message','Hello World');

Very cool concept. If you haven't already done so, check out jQuery, which
makes extensive use of this concept -- a method returning the calling
object.




From paul at devonianfarm.com  Thu Jan 17 22:53:47 2008
From: paul at devonianfarm.com (Paul Houle)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:53:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171713070.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171713070.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
Message-ID: <479022CB.7090707@devonianfarm.com>

Ajai Khattri wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, paul at devonianfarm.com wrote:
>
>   
>> Symfony has a mature view system that has caching and other advanced 
>> features (I wish I could say it was as mature in the data access department)
>>     
>
> Care to elaborate?
>
> Also, have you played with Doctrine much?
>
>   
    The more I've thought about it,  the more I like the basic approach 
of Propel.  (In fact,  today I was working on a data access layer for an 
ASP.NET application and ended up building a "Peer" class because needed 
some place to stick the static methods associated with a particular 
database table.) 

    Symfony/Propel fails seriously,  however,  when it comes to database 
maintainability. 

    You're left high and dry if you do things the "symfony" way of 
writing your schema files and building a database from that.  Want to do 
something simple like add a column?  There's no way to do it other than 
to make a change in the schema and ~then~ make a change in the database.

    Things get really hairy when you install a plugin or two...  I used 
sf_comment to add comments to this site:

http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/

    I followed the install instructions for sf_comment and found that 
the build scripts trashed my database.  Symfony plug-ins are based on 
the assumption that you design the database,  build the site out and 
never change it.

    Now,  there is a way out,  and that's the strategy of having the 
'official' copy of the database schema be in the database and build your 
propel schema from that.  I've had reasonable results that way,  but 
have run into two problems:

(i) if you don't follow certain (unwritten) conventions in how your 
tables and columns are named,  Propel might build weird database 
bindings or might build database bindings that don't compile.  For 
instance,  I inherited a database that had a field named 'count'.  Maybe 
you're not supposed to do that (count is a mysql function) but the 
database worked just fine until Propel got involved.
(ii) I'm not entirely happy with how foreign keys work,  at least with a 
mysql back end.  Foreign keys get imported in the schema,  almost 
correctly,  if you're running an innodb database,  but not if you're 
running myisam (which doesn't keep the metadata.)  It would be really 
nice to have a place to keep hints about foreign keys that get merged 
with fresh info from the database schema.

--------

Doctrine?  On paper doctrine looks great.  The migration mechanism looks 
promising and so does the query language.  In practice,  documentation 
is lacking.  For instance,

http://trac.symfony-project.com/wiki/sfDoctrinePlugin1.1

Doesn't say a word about how you configure your database connections or 
how you build your model from your schemas.  It would be really nice to 
have a sample app based on Doctrine that you can install by going down a 
checklist.  That's how Doctrine fails the maturity test.  Every symfony 
project I've done in the last few months has been something where I need 
to deliver some real functionality in a few hours...  I can either get 
the job done with Propel,  where I'm up on the learning curve,  or I 
could mess around for twice as long to get it working with Doctrine...  
Only to find that I did it my own way rather than a standardized 
framework way.


From lists at nopersonal.info  Thu Jan 17 22:33:42 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:33:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <721f1cc50801171313g534e40f0q3991911d64a8af65@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>	<478F466C.9080008@tgaconnect.com>
	<478FBB02.2010702@nopersonal.info>
	<721f1cc50801171313g534e40f0q3991911d64a8af65@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47901E16.3000104@nopersonal.info>

David Mintz wrote:
> 
> Well, you could take some self-defense classes in addition to all your 
> PHP studies and carry some weapon such as one of those pepper spray 
> things.... oops, getting OT.

Now that you mention it, my PHP Function Reference could be used as a 
pretty hefty club should I ever feel the need for self-defense...

> Seriously, though:  welcome to the party. You will like it here, and I 
> am in solidarity with your situation, as I'm a sort of self-taught, 
> humanities-trained part-time hobbyist lightweight who aspires to do it 
> better than a part-time hobbyist lightweight... Things I've found helpful:

Thanks for the welcome. I already like it here, and it's good to know 
that I'm not alone on several counts.

> * Take a course from a good instructor, the programming language hardly 
> matters. I studied Java to no good practical professional purpose, but 
> the discipline and problem-solving practice was great for my programming 
> generally.
> 
> * Read those books and tutorials, but keep a skeptical mind. Times have 
> since changed for the better, but I learned some sloppy habits back in 
> the days of PHP3 because I trusted what I read.
> 
> * Learn to use Subversion, even if only so you will have a backup and so 
> you can roll back whenever you make a really terrible mess.
> 
> * Smarty is not a panacea nor a substitute for discipline. I used to be 
> a Smarty believer, now I'm more of a Zend Framework believer. (Yes they 
> aren't mutually exclusive, but we digress...)
> 
> * Don't get too obsessed with planning planning planning at the expense 
> of doing. I have been in that trap and have only recently recovered. (My 
> problem has been working 100% alone and lacking of a tech-savvy boss or 
> demanding customer to bust my chops, so I have had the luxury of saying 
> "i don't like it, this isn't good" and wiping out a project and starting 
> over four or five times.)
> 
> * Validate input, filter output (-:  !

Solid advice, all of it. Thanks again!

Bev


From lists at nopersonal.info  Thu Jan 17 23:35:15 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:35:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930801171848n2951710nea01ef3717becd86@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478EA8B0.2090408@nopersonal.info>
	<1d8a0e930801171848n2951710nea01ef3717becd86@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47902C83.9020103@nopersonal.info>

Adrian Noland wrote:
> I've always found the articles at IBM developerworks to be gems. They 
> are always succinct and at the same time give you just enough of a taste 
> to keep looking for the complete solution.
> 
> www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-php-read/ 
> <http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-php-read/>
> www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/top-projects/php.html 
> <http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/top-projects/php.html>
> http://www.devshed.com/
> 
> The venerable melonfire too: 
> http://www.melonfire.com/community/columns/trog/archives.php

Wow, I've goggled PHP-related stuff at least a gazillion times and I 
never ran across 3 out of 4 of those. Thanks!

Bev


From susan_shemin at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 18 00:20:26 2008
From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin)
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 21:20:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
Message-ID: <894460.8791.qm@web50212.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'll add another source which I've posted here before that brings up your programming skills.

www.devx.com

If you join from their Premier Club into Safari Books for a couple of dollars a month, you can get 5 or 10 computer books depending on your monthly fee (and I understand unlimited books, too) to read for a month.  

This book source is what I use as I program my websites, and I look up the topics to learn as I come across the need.  I've looked up and used Ajax as I needed it and the syntax for MySQL for my queries and OO PHP 5 programming when I wanted to write cleaner code and how to use layers to get my effects in Photoshop and how to do some complex JavaScripting, and then when I came across a reference to Pear, I looked up what it and how it might help me.  For me, it works so much better to learn the topic as the need comes up rather than to plod consecutively through a book.  This book service is a fantastic source!!

Susan
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From lists at nopersonal.info  Fri Jan 18 00:43:15 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:43:15 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Transitioning from Beginner to Intermediate PHP
In-Reply-To: <894460.8791.qm@web50212.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <894460.8791.qm@web50212.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47903C73.7070200@nopersonal.info>

Susan Shemin wrote:
> I'll add another source which I've posted here before that brings up 
> your programming skills.
>  
> www.devx.com <http://www.devx.com>
>  
> If you join from their Premier Club into Safari Books for a couple of 
> dollars a month, you can get 5 or 10 computer books depending on your 
> monthly fee (and I understand unlimited books, too) to read for a month.  

Thanks, Susan! I spend an obscene amount of money on books, and their 
Premier Club looks like it offers a much better deal on Safari Books 
than O'Reilly does.

Bev


From arzala at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 03:04:53 2008
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:34:53 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <479022CB.7090707@devonianfarm.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171713070.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
	<479022CB.7090707@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <200801181334.53382.arzala@gmail.com>

On Friday 18 Jan 2008 09:23:47 Paul Houle wrote:
> Ajai Khattri wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, paul at devonianfarm.com wrote:
> >> Symfony has a mature view system that has caching and other advanced
> >> features (I wish I could say it was as mature in the data access
> >> department)
> >
> > Care to elaborate?
> >
> > Also, have you played with Doctrine much?
>
>     The more I've thought about it,  the more I like the basic approach
> of Propel.  (In fact,  today I was working on a data access layer for an
> ASP.NET application and ended up building a "Peer" class because needed
> some place to stick the static methods associated with a particular
> database table.)
>
>     Symfony/Propel fails seriously,  however,  when it comes to database
> maintainability.
>
>     You're left high and dry if you do things the "symfony" way of
> writing your schema files and building a database from that.  Want to do
> something simple like add a column?  There's no way to do it other than
> to make a change in the schema and ~then~ make a change in the database.
>
>     Things get really hairy when you install a plugin or two...  I used
> sf_comment to add comments to this site:
>
> http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/
>
>     I followed the install instructions for sf_comment and found that
> the build scripts trashed my database.  Symfony plug-ins are based on
> the assumption that you design the database,  build the site out and
> never change it.
>
>     Now,  there is a way out,  and that's the strategy of having the
> 'official' copy of the database schema be in the database and build your
> propel schema from that.  I've had reasonable results that way,  but
> have run into two problems:
>
> (i) if you don't follow certain (unwritten) conventions in how your
> tables and columns are named,  Propel might build weird database
> bindings or might build database bindings that don't compile.  For
> instance,  I inherited a database that had a field named 'count'.  Maybe
> you're not supposed to do that (count is a mysql function) but the
> database worked just fine until Propel got involved.
> (ii) I'm not entirely happy with how foreign keys work,  at least with a
> mysql back end.  Foreign keys get imported in the schema,  almost
> correctly,  if you're running an innodb database,  but not if you're
> running myisam (which doesn't keep the metadata.)  It would be really
> nice to have a place to keep hints about foreign keys that get merged
> with fresh info from the database schema.
>
> --------
>
> Doctrine?  On paper doctrine looks great.  The migration mechanism looks
> promising and so does the query language.  In practice,  documentation
> is lacking.  For instance,
>
> http://trac.symfony-project.com/wiki/sfDoctrinePlugin1.1
>
> Doesn't say a word about how you configure your database connections or
> how you build your model from your schemas.  It would be really nice to
> have a sample app based on Doctrine that you can install by going down a
> checklist.  That's how Doctrine fails the maturity test.  Every symfony
> project I've done in the last few months has been something where I need
> to deliver some real functionality in a few hours...  I can either get
> the job done with Propel,  where I'm up on the learning curve,  or I
> could mess around for twice as long to get it working with Doctrine...
> Only to find that I did it my own way rather than a standardized
> framework way.

Good points.

When you move from medium to large scale projects, Symfony starts getting 
restricted. For example there is no native support to handle replication of 
database hence you left stumped that what to do.

Fortunately there is plugin to do so. But it has also it's limitations. It 
supports only 1 master and many slave type of replication. Hence if you need 
to handle multiple masters and slaves then you have no other way except 
modifying that plugin.

Thanks

Anirudh Zala

> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php




From paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk  Fri Jan 18 05:15:42 2008
From: paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk (PaulCheung)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:15:42 -0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Can PHP be wrapped around HTML??
References: <004701c857b9$0be6f1f0$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <001b01c859bb$15c53020$0200a8c0@X9183>

My thanks to everybody for your help.

Paul


From guilhermeblanco at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 07:35:36 2008
From: guilhermeblanco at gmail.com (Guilherme Blanco)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:35:36 -0200
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <479022CB.7090707@devonianfarm.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801171713070.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
	<479022CB.7090707@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <bcb7aa500801180435n2a165c89ne88190e7b68328f9@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry,


I'd not interrupt the entire discussion... but something here is wrong.
Read my comments just after what the user said:


On Jan 18, 2008 1:53 AM, Paul Houle <paul at devonianfarm.com> wrote:
> Ajai Khattri wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, paul at devonianfarm.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Symfony has a mature view system that has caching and other advanced
> >> features (I wish I could say it was as mature in the data access department)
> >>
> >
> > Care to elaborate?
> >
> > Also, have you played with Doctrine much?
> >
> >
>     The more I've thought about it,  the more I like the basic approach
> of Propel.  (In fact,  today I was working on a data access layer for an
> ASP.NET application and ended up building a "Peer" class because needed
> some place to stick the static methods associated with a particular
> database table.)
>
>     Symfony/Propel fails seriously,  however,  when it comes to database
> maintainability.
>
>     You're left high and dry if you do things the "symfony" way of
> writing your schema files and building a database from that.  Want to do
> something simple like add a column?  There's no way to do it other than
> to make a change in the schema and ~then~ make a change in the database.
>

Propel is rigid on Join conditions and you're unable to fetch for
something like...

Users -> Related Permissions to Users -> Permissions -> Permissions Categories

Doctrine enables you to do it. Continue reading... =)


>     Things get really hairy when you install a plugin or two...  I used
> sf_comment to add comments to this site:
>
> http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/
>
>     I followed the install instructions for sf_comment and found that
> the build scripts trashed my database.  Symfony plug-ins are based on
> the assumption that you design the database,  build the site out and
> never change it.
>
>     Now,  there is a way out,  and that's the strategy of having the
> 'official' copy of the database schema be in the database and build your
> propel schema from that.  I've had reasonable results that way,  but
> have run into two problems:
>
> (i) if you don't follow certain (unwritten) conventions in how your
> tables and columns are named,  Propel might build weird database
> bindings or might build database bindings that don't compile.  For
> instance,  I inherited a database that had a field named 'count'.  Maybe
> you're not supposed to do that (count is a mysql function) but the
> database worked just fine until Propel got involved.
> (ii) I'm not entirely happy with how foreign keys work,  at least with a
> mysql back end.  Foreign keys get imported in the schema,  almost
> correctly,  if you're running an innodb database,  but not if you're
> running myisam (which doesn't keep the metadata.)  It would be really
> nice to have a place to keep hints about foreign keys that get merged
> with fresh info from the database schema.
>
> --------
>
> Doctrine?  On paper doctrine looks great.  The migration mechanism looks
> promising and so does the query language.  In practice,  documentation
> is lacking.  For instance,
>
> http://trac.symfony-project.com/wiki/sfDoctrinePlugin1.1
>
> Doesn't say a word about how you configure your database connections or
> how you build your model from your schemas.  It would be really nice to
> have a sample app based on Doctrine that you can install by going down a
> checklist.  That's how Doctrine fails the maturity test.  Every symfony
> project I've done in the last few months has been something where I need
> to deliver some real functionality in a few hours...  I can either get
> the job done with Propel,  where I'm up on the learning curve,  or I
> could mess around for twice as long to get it working with Doctrine...
> Only to find that I did it my own way rather than a standardized
> framework way.

Doctrine is the best ORM for PHP available today. It is still under
heavy development and has some serious bugs, but it still keep the
first place when talking about ORM.

Symfony's Doctrine documentation is small and there are 2 places where
you need to check to get the desirable information. Since the method
to generate models from schema haven't changed, it was only documented
in 0.1 manual (something I really don't like, but anyway...).

Just to get things clear, I'll answer your wishes:


Doesn't say a word about how you configure your database connections

http://trac.symfony-project.com/wiki/sfDoctrinePlugin1.1

Just after the installation process, it describes how to define
database connections.




how you build your model from your schemas

http://trac.symfony-project.com/wiki/sfDoctrinePlugin0.1

Here you'll find a more extensive documentation about how to use
Doctrine under sf. You'll even find some information regarding how to
write schemas, but I really suggest you to check the official Doctrine
manual to do it.
Also, in this page you'll see how to generate your models, generate
sql and also run the sql on database.

And if you don't feel comfortable or something simply does not work
for you, just open Konversation on server irc.freenode.net and enter
in #doctrine channel. There are a lot of people there ready to help
you. Also there are 3 or 4 mailing lists that you can send messages.

I am a Doctrine contributor, responsible for Doctrine_Pager
functionality and I never tried Symfony + Doctrine before. Until now I
used Doctrine with my own framework, but I moved from my old job to
another one.
In the beginning of this week I've been requested to start a huge
application with sf + doctrine and I didn't spend more than 1 hour to
configure everything and generate my first model (1h including read
the sf manual to install it and then read the manual to install
doctrine extension).
I know nothing about sf and I am still reading the manual. So, I don't
think it's too much difficult as you said to do it.



Best regards,


>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Guilherme Blanco - Web Developer
CBC - Certified Bindows Consultant
Cell Phone: +55 (16) 9166-6902
MSN: guilhermeblanco at hotmail.com
URL: http://blog.bisna.com
S?o Carlos - SP/Brazil

From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Fri Jan 18 10:30:32 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:30:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] PHP HTTP POST not working
In-Reply-To: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080118153031.GA7669@panix.com>

Hi Jason:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2008 at 08:48:20PM -0800, Jason Sia wrote:

Whenever you do anything outside your script (like running a query, 
opening a file or using cURL) you _must_ check the response and handle 
any errors.

>         $result=curl_exec ($ch);

if ($result == false)
{
    $error = curl_errno($ch) . ': ' . curl_error($ch);
    your_error_handler_logger_thingie($error);
    exit;
}

>         curl_close ($ch);

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From ajai at bitblit.net  Fri Jan 18 13:00:02 2008
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:00:02 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <479022CB.7090707@devonianfarm.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801181154280.30734-100000@bitblit.net>

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008, Paul Houle wrote:

>     Symfony/Propel fails seriously,  however,  when it comes to database 
> maintainability. 

Which is why I mentioned Doctrine...

>     You're left high and dry if you do things the "symfony" way of 
> writing your schema files and building a database from that.  Want to do 
> something simple like add a column?  There's no way to do it other than 
> to make a change in the schema and ~then~ make a change in the database.

True, there are no "migrations-like" features like RoR. But Doctrine 
does...

>     Things get really hairy when you install a plugin or two...  I used 
> sf_comment to add comments to this site:
> 
> http://spoonriveranthology.net/spoon/river/
> 
>     I followed the install instructions for sf_comment and found that 
> the build scripts trashed my database.  Symfony plug-ins are based on 
> the assumption that you design the database,  build the site out and 
> never change it.

We've used a bunch of plugins without problems so far.

> (i) if you don't follow certain (unwritten) conventions in how your 
> tables and columns are named,  Propel might build weird database 
> bindings or might build database bindings that don't compile.

A lot of frameworks have database conventions (again, cf. with RoR) and 
some people will hate it and some love it. BTW, I think symfony's use of 
YAML for database schema is a bit restrictive. (We've been using the XML 
format instead).

> (ii) I'm not entirely happy with how foreign keys work,  at least with a 
> mysql back end.  Foreign keys get imported in the schema,  almost 
> correctly,  if you're running an innodb database,  but not if you're 
> running myisam (which doesn't keep the metadata.)  It would be really 
> nice to have a place to keep hints about foreign keys that get merged 
> with fresh info from the database schema.

Yeah, we switched to InnoDB for all our projects.

> Doctrine?  On paper doctrine looks great.  The migration mechanism looks 
> promising and so does the query language.  In practice,  documentation 
> is lacking.

I think Guilherme answered some of your points about Doctrine.

> to deliver some real functionality in a few hours...  I can either get 
> the job done with Propel,  where I'm up on the learning curve,  or I 
> could mess around for twice as long to get it working with Doctrine...  
> Only to find that I did it my own way rather than a standardized 
> framework way.

On this point I kinda agree with you though Im optimistic that Doctrine 
will improve with time.


-- 
Aj.




From ajai at bitblit.net  Fri Jan 18 13:05:03 2008
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:05:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <bcb7aa500801180435n2a165c89ne88190e7b68328f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801181302240.30734-100000@bitblit.net>

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Guilherme Blanco wrote:

> I know nothing about sf and I am still reading the manual. So, I don't
> think it's too much difficult as you said to do it.

The print copy of the "official" sf books has some mistakes (I have filed 
tickets in the past on those). The online version of the book has those 
corrections.

The sf mailing list is a pretty active place these days.


-- 
Aj. (who hasn't made the jump to Doctrine just yet but keeps checking its 
progress :-)





From ajai at bitblit.net  Fri Jan 18 13:16:28 2008
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:16:28 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <200801181334.53382.arzala@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801181305500.30734-100000@bitblit.net>

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Anirudh Zala wrote:

> When you move from medium to large scale projects, Symfony starts getting 
> restricted. For example there is no native support to handle replication of 
> database hence you left stumped that what to do.
> 
> Fortunately there is plugin to do so. But it has also it's limitations. It 
> supports only 1 master and many slave type of replication. Hence if you need 
> to handle multiple masters and slaves then you have no other way except 
> modifying that plugin.

Define "large".

We launched two new sites done in sf 6 months ago - no problems so far 
(I spent a long time figuring out the caching for most of the modules).

We are also busy redesigning/building pieces of an existing static site 
running across a cluster of machines and averaging 2 to 4 million hits per 
day.



-- 
Aj.



From cliff at pinestream.com  Fri Jan 18 13:35:02 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:35:02 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
Message-ID: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>

Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup? Instead of getting another independent
server, setting up rsync, etc. this seems like a good solution for backing
up a server or sql database. Sure, my ISP does daily backups, but having
more control by backing up the database off-site would make me sleep better.

Anyone have any experience? Good, bad, suggestions, ideas? Any other
alternatives worth looking at?

Cliff
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From smanes at magpie.com  Fri Jan 18 19:04:27 2008
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:04:27 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <47913E8B.20704@magpie.com>

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup? Instead of getting another 
> independent server, setting up rsync, etc. this seems like a good 
> solution for backing up a server or sql database. Sure, my ISP does 
> daily backups, but having more control by backing up the database 
> off-site would make me sleep better.
> 
> Anyone have any experience? Good, bad, suggestions, ideas? Any other 
> alternatives worth looking at?

It's not an rsync solution (although there are some like 
http://s3sync.net/wiki) but a friend of mine who owns a consulting 
company employing several telecommuters is using S3 via a $20 piece of 
software called Jungle Disk (http://jungledisk.com/) to back up his 
laptops in the field.  He's been very happy with it.  I'm trying to get 
one of my clients to consider it for his computers in the wild.


From ka at kacomputerconsulting.com  Fri Jan 18 19:08:50 2008
From: ka at kacomputerconsulting.com (Kristina Anderson)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:08:50 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?/Amazon Web
	Services
Message-ID: <1200701330.18928@coral.he.net>

I posted yesterday asking if anyone knew anything about using Amazon 
Web Services with PEAR::SOAP and PHP...specifically getting the 
environment configured and successfully getting responses back from 
Amazon...

PS Guys, I know I've been asking a lot of questions and haven't taken 
a lot of time to answer questions from others, but I've been swamped 
with two clients' urgent demands lately...when things clear up I 
promise to try to help, such as I can, with any questions posted.

> Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> > Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup? Instead of getting another 
> > independent server, setting up rsync, etc. this seems like a good 
> > solution for backing up a server or sql database. Sure, my ISP 
does 
> > daily backups, but having more control by backing up the database 
> > off-site would make me sleep better.
> > 
> > Anyone have any experience? Good, bad, suggestions, ideas? Any 
other 
> > alternatives worth looking at?
> 
> It's not an rsync solution (although there are some like 
> http://s3sync.net/wiki) but a friend of mine who owns a consulting 
> company employing several telecommuters is using S3 via a $20 piece 
of 
> software called Jungle Disk (http://jungledisk.com/) to back up his 
> laptops in the field.  He's been very happy with it.  I'm trying to 
get 
> one of my clients to consider it for his computers in the wild.
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> 
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
> 
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> 
> 




From bz-gmort at beezifies.com  Fri Jan 18 19:25:24 2008
From: bz-gmort at beezifies.com (Gary Mort)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 19:25:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu>
References: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu>
Message-ID: <47914374.50901@beezifies.com>

Yitzchak Schaffer wrote:
> Greetings all --
>
> The current thread on beginner to intermediate has brought up Smarty; 
> I have been wondering about the relative advantanges of PHP templating 
> engines.  

A templating engine has two purposes.

1) It enforces, to a degree, the seperation of business/programming 
logic from display logic.

2) It provides a simplified mechanism for changing the presentation 
logic, without requiring changes to complex code.


The first goal can be met by simply adopting a MVC methodology, or any 
other system and creating your templates in PHP.  This has the added 
benefit of not needing to learn a new language, so of course PHP 
programmers prefer this(why add work for themselves?)

The latter depends on the sophistication of your users.  Some of them 
can handle updating PHP templates.  Some of them just want a simple 
system where they have a few keywords they can replace with other 
data(witness the massive popularity of programs such as Constant 
Contact).  Others are in the middle. 

For them, systems like Smarty can provide a big benefit.  They also gain 
the added benefit that if they make a mistake, no PHP programs will break.

In the end, you have to decide based on your user base.

For myself, I choose to support Smarty as it seems the most popular.  
And in my book, when your making systems for other people, only halfway 
technicaly sophisticated, it's best to provide them with a system that 
has a broad base they can go to for help.


From arzala at gmail.com  Fri Jan 18 22:18:09 2008
From: arzala at gmail.com (Anirudh Zala)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:48:09 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801181305500.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801181305500.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
Message-ID: <200801190848.09339.arzala@gmail.com>

On Friday 18 Jan 2008 23:46:28 Ajai Khattri wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Anirudh Zala wrote:
> > When you move from medium to large scale projects, Symfony starts getting
> > restricted. For example there is no native support to handle replication
> > of database hence you left stumped that what to do.
> >
> > Fortunately there is plugin to do so. But it has also it's limitations.
> > It supports only 1 master and many slave type of replication. Hence if
> > you need to handle multiple masters and slaves then you have no other way
> > except modifying that plugin.
>
> Define "large".

Many large scale projects have high traffic of users hence you require to use 
Replication or Clustering of database.

>
> We launched two new sites done in sf 6 months ago - no problems so far
> (I spent a long time figuring out the caching for most of the modules).
>
> We are also busy redesigning/building pieces of an existing static site
> running across a cluster of machines and averaging 2 to 4 million hits per
> day.




From leam at reuel.net  Sat Jan 19 09:24:26 2008
From: leam at reuel.net (leam)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 09:24:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Web metrics, performance, business ideas,
	and programming in your jammies...
Message-ID: <1200752666.2883.24.camel@leam>

Coffee is still kicking in, will try not to ramble...

Anyone have web performance and client dwell time on site metrics they
use to tune their apps to? In a conversation yesterday a friend
mentioned using Lighttpd and getting a 30% boost in request services per
second over Apache. In other areas I've looked at the performance of
NetBSD over Linux on low-end hardware and it raised the question of end
to end performance. 

Not a question of "can you make it more performant?" as that's easy to
answer. I'm looking at "Is there a web metric that makes it more viable
for a small start up to spend time maintaining non-mainstream software
collections than using standard tools like Apache, Linux, and
traditional servers"?

Another business aspect I need to consider is integration into
distributed tools. Similar to Amazon's S3, I'm pretty confident that the
future is in a highly distributed infrastructure for both the client and
provider. That amplifies standardization and performance; every extra
web hop adds transaction overhead and costs resources in bandwidth and
colo fees or the equivalent.

My target market is small businesses that need IT but technology is not
their business. I want to be able to sell them a performant solution
that actually solves issues for them and lets them get back to making
profit doing whatever they do. As I'm small too, in business terms if
not in girth, building the capbilities of large enterprises is not
within my resource limits. 

So I sit here on a chilly Saturday morning and ask questions for friends
I've never met for help with my business. I'm in my jammies, like many
of you, and looking to solve significant issues for fun and profit. Like
many of you I have visionary ideas and a bootstrap budget. Sometimes I
wonder if we choose technologies less for purely geeky reasons and
occasionally for the people it brings us into contact with. 

Leam





From lists at zaunere.com  Sat Jan 19 10:17:30 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:17:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <47913E8B.20704@magpie.com>
References: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com> <47913E8B.20704@magpie.com>
Message-ID: <000001c85aae$690e8df0$3b2ba9d0$@com>

> Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> > Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup? Instead of getting another
> > independent server, setting up rsync, etc. this seems like a good
> > solution for backing up a server or sql database. Sure, my ISP does
> > daily backups, but having more control by backing up the database
> > off-site would make me sleep better.

For servers:

rsync and www.raidarray.net 


For laptops:

http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/sbse.html

(and then FTP/SMB/rsync/etc)

As far as my opinion on S3 - interesting, but not where I want to put my
most valuable data.

H




From ramons at gmx.net  Sat Jan 19 10:20:35 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:20:35 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Web metrics, performance, business ideas,
	and programming in your jammies...
In-Reply-To: <1200752666.2883.24.camel@leam>
References: <1200752666.2883.24.camel@leam>
Message-ID: <47921543.6070507@gmx.net>

leam wrote:
> Not a question of "can you make it more performant?" as that's easy to
> answer. I'm looking at "Is there a web metric that makes it more viable
> for a small start up to spend time maintaining non-mainstream software
> collections than using standard tools like Apache, Linux, and
> traditional servers"?

Do you even need these improvements? If your current setup works out, why 
bother optimizing it and potentially hitting a bunch of problems? Improving 
performance is always appreciated, but finding metrics, evaluating them, then 
tweaking them, then trying different constellations. I don't know, but that 
effort and risk for a theoretical performance increase?

Some long time ago I read in one of the more populer computer magazines (Micht 
have been Computerworld) a performance analysis of IIS on Windows (obviously), 
Apache on Windows, and Apache on Linux. Their results showed that Apache on 
Windows performs best. Their recommendation was to use the WAMPP stack for web 
development. I don't know how accurate their test was and how the situation is 
today, but it shows that there are more factors to performance than just the 
web server application. Sure, some light weight web server apps can surely 
perform better, but there are likely things that these apps can't do. And 
other characteristics such as reliability are almost more important than kick 
ass performance.

David


From leam at reuel.net  Sat Jan 19 11:29:58 2008
From: leam at reuel.net (leam)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:29:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Web metrics, performance, business ideas, and
	programming in your jammies...
In-Reply-To: <47921543.6070507@gmx.net>
References: <1200752666.2883.24.camel@leam>  <47921543.6070507@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <1200760198.2883.50.camel@leam>

On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 10:20 -0500, David Krings wrote:
> leam wrote:
> > Not a question of "can you make it more performant?" as that's easy to
> > answer. I'm looking at "Is there a web metric that makes it more viable
> > for a small start up to spend time maintaining non-mainstream software
> > collections than using standard tools like Apache, Linux, and
> > traditional servers"?
> 
> Do you even need these improvements? If your current setup works out, why 
> bother optimizing it and potentially hitting a bunch of problems? Improving 
> performance is always appreciated, but finding metrics, evaluating them, then 
> tweaking them, then trying different constellations. I don't know, but that 
> effort and risk for a theoretical performance increase?
> 
> Some long time ago I read in one of the more populer computer magazines (Micht 
> have been Computerworld) a performance analysis of IIS on Windows (obviously), 
> Apache on Windows, and Apache on Linux. Their results showed that Apache on 
> Windows performs best. Their recommendation was to use the WAMPP stack for web 
> development. I don't know how accurate their test was and how the situation is 
> today, but it shows that there are more factors to performance than just the 
> web server application. Sure, some light weight web server apps can surely 
> perform better, but there are likely things that these apps can't do. And 
> other characteristics such as reliability are almost more important than kick 
> ass performance.
> 
> David


Lack of performance costs enterprises billions of dollars in datacenter
footprints annually. Performance at the "5 clients on my web-host" level
is, as you note, less an issue. However, I think big and scaling is an
issue. 

Let's say I want to charge $20 a month for web-hosting, offering 50 M of
space. I just configured a Dell PowerEdge SC1435 with 8G ram, dual 300G
hard drives and two dual core Opterons. Comes to just over $3000, for
redundnacy I need two. That means a lease of ~$280/month for 36 months,
or 14 paying clients for the hardware. Server is small, so 5 clients per
month for rackspace (2x 1U@$50/U). Using Open Source software all the
way, so that's a cost savings.

However, I'm a start up so I want to grow. One tool is a re-seller
program; I'll let my ad hoc sales force take 50% of the income from
paying clients just to get growth. That means my "19 clients to pay
expenses" becomes 38. Disk space isn't an issue, but support operations
time is. If I can make $1000 a month doing side work for someone else I
need to have 100 more paying customers to make this business venture a
break even, and that's not counting administrative overhead, marketing,
insurance, etc.

So we're not at a disk issue yet, but hypothetical load issues need to
be attended. While the servers are technically 2x Dual core 2.4Ghz with
8G of RAM, they are effectively half that because I need both machines
to be able to handle the entire load. That provides for hardware
failure, power or NIC failure, etc. 

So we return to metrics. While the boxes are pretty nice, at what client
count does their performance become "slow" and is it better to upgrade
hardware or spend personell time tuning the servers? Business profit
should derive from value added to the product, what vaules are worth
adding and charging for? If there is no noticeable market response
between a 20 second web page and a 30 second one we can allocate
resources elsewhere. If there *is* a difference then knowing and tuning
to beat the metrics becomes a business advantage.

Side note. No, this isn't a "for class" assignment. I'm actually
thinking through these issues because I see some good business
opportunities here. If you are in this or a similiar business and don't
mind sharing your insights, feel free to contact me off line. Hopefully
I'll produce enough clear thought to help others down the road as well.

Leam




From cliff at pinestream.com  Sat Jan 19 11:47:10 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:47:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <000001c85aae$690e8df0$3b2ba9d0$@com>
Message-ID: <C3B793BE.BD62%cliff@pinestream.com>

> For servers:
> www.raidarray.net

This looks very interesting. Surprising the the std. service is ftp, which
is not secure, instead of sftp. rsync over ssh looks good though.

> As far as my opinion on S3 - interesting, but not where I want to put my
> most valuable data.

Why? Because of security or reliability concerns?




From nate at cakephp.org  Sat Jan 19 12:25:29 2008
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:25:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <20080119152030.0F24650845@mail.cakephp.org>
References: <20080119152030.0F24650845@mail.cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <4C137AB4-B88D-45E4-8AC4-6A057091BD2E@cakephp.org>

On Jan 19, 2008, at 10:20 AM, talk-request at lists.nyphp.org wrote:


> On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Anirudh Zala wrote:
>
>> When you move from medium to large scale projects, Symfony starts  
>> getting
>> restricted. For example there is no native support to handle  
>> replication of
>> database hence you left stumped that what to do.
>>
>> Fortunately there is plugin to do so. But it has also it's  
>> limitations. It
>> supports only 1 master and many slave type of replication. Hence if  
>> you need
>> to handle multiple masters and slaves then you have no other way  
>> except
>> modifying that plugin.
>
> Define "large".


Okay.  How about an application that more than 5 of my closest friends  
can use at the same time?  So far, all benchmarks indicate that  
Symfony is about *half as fast as Rails*.  You take APC out of the  
equation, and it's about an 8th as fast as Rails (in terms of rps).

Getting back to the OP, in terms of speed, you're better off going  
with pretty much anything but Symfony.  Heck, you'd probably be better  
off re-implementing PHP itself in PHP (oh wait, that's Smarty).  For  
simple templating, nothing beats PHP itself, which is why I'd  
recommend something like Savant.


From lists at zaunere.com  Sat Jan 19 13:38:25 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:38:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <C3B793BE.BD62%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <000001c85aae$690e8df0$3b2ba9d0$@com>
	<C3B793BE.BD62%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <000001c85aca$7a4b54b0$6ee1fe10$@com>

 
> > For servers:
> > www.raidarray.net
> 
> This looks very interesting. Surprising the the std. service is ftp, which
> is not secure, instead of sftp. rsync over ssh looks good though.

Yeah, they're great.  I of course have sftp/smb/rsync enabled and only allow
FTP access when through my VPN.  Their service is well firewalled, so you
have to request holes, which they're happy to customize.

> > As far as my opinion on S3 - interesting, but not where I want to put my
> > most valuable data.
> 
> Why? Because of security or reliability concerns?

Yeah, both.  I wasn't impressed with the SLA, and the access methods don't
appeal to me.  It feels a lot more like a CDN, than a secure remote storage
solution - then again, maybe I'm just old fashioned.

H




From ramons at gmx.net  Sat Jan 19 13:42:17 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 13:42:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Web metrics, performance, business ideas,
	and	programming in your jammies...
In-Reply-To: <1200760198.2883.50.camel@leam>
References: <1200752666.2883.24.camel@leam> <47921543.6070507@gmx.net>
	<1200760198.2883.50.camel@leam>
Message-ID: <47924489.2010704@gmx.net>

leam wrote:
> Side note. No, this isn't a "for class" assignment. I'm actually
> thinking through these issues because I see some good business
> opportunities here. If you are in this or a similiar business and don't
> mind sharing your insights, feel free to contact me off line. Hopefully
> I'll produce enough clear thought to help others down the road as well.
> 
> Leam

OK, now I understand a bit better what the motivation is. I was under the 
impression as that you run some web service using an application that you 
offer and that it is a side business of the type "hobby that makes some money" 
and that the performance improvement idea was more of a "let's see how much I 
could squeeze out of the server box that I have". In short, I wasn't aware of 
the magnitude of your undertaking.

I cannot be of any help as I have one hobby server and maybe two or three 
people connecting at a time.

David


From tom at supertom.com  Sat Jan 19 14:38:05 2008
From: tom at supertom.com (Tom Melendez)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:38:05 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <4C137AB4-B88D-45E4-8AC4-6A057091BD2E@cakephp.org>
References: <20080119152030.0F24650845@mail.cakephp.org>
	<4C137AB4-B88D-45E4-8AC4-6A057091BD2E@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <117286890801191138l4ac1171p698bb693914af9f6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Nate,

Could you supply us with the benchmarks you've cited?  I'm curious to
see them and I'm sure others are as well.

Thanks,

Tom
http://www.liphp.org


On Jan 19, 2008 9:25 AM, Nate Abele <nate at cakephp.org> wrote:
> On Jan 19, 2008, at 10:20 AM, talk-request at lists.nyphp.org wrote:
>
>
> > On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Anirudh Zala wrote:
> >
> >> When you move from medium to large scale projects, Symfony starts
> >> getting
> >> restricted. For example there is no native support to handle
> >> replication of
> >> database hence you left stumped that what to do.
> >>
> >> Fortunately there is plugin to do so. But it has also it's
> >> limitations. It
> >> supports only 1 master and many slave type of replication. Hence if
> >> you need
> >> to handle multiple masters and slaves then you have no other way
> >> except
> >> modifying that plugin.
> >
> > Define "large".
>
>
> Okay.  How about an application that more than 5 of my closest friends
> can use at the same time?  So far, all benchmarks indicate that
> Symfony is about *half as fast as Rails*.  You take APC out of the
> equation, and it's about an 8th as fast as Rails (in terms of rps).
>
> Getting back to the OP, in terms of speed, you're better off going
> with pretty much anything but Symfony.  Heck, you'd probably be better
> off re-implementing PHP itself in PHP (oh wait, that's Smarty).  For
> simple templating, nothing beats PHP itself, which is why I'd
> recommend something like Savant.
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sat Jan 19 20:22:51 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:22:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <4C137AB4-B88D-45E4-8AC4-6A057091BD2E@cakephp.org>
References: <20080119152030.0F24650845@mail.cakephp.org>
	<4C137AB4-B88D-45E4-8AC4-6A057091BD2E@cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <4792A26B.7070306@tgaconnect.com>

Nate Abele wrote:
[..
> Getting back to the OP, in terms of speed, you're better off going with 
> pretty much anything but Symfony.  Heck, you'd probably be better off 
> re-implementing PHP itself in PHP (oh wait, that's Smarty).  For simple 
> templating, nothing beats PHP itself ..."

http://www.nyphp.org/content/presentations/3templates/

brings up some interesting points

* Why use a template engine?

* Why not to use a template engine? (or: why PHP is a template engine)

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From tgales at tgaconnect.com  Sat Jan 19 21:17:33 2008
From: tgales at tgaconnect.com (Tim Gales)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 21:17:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Web metrics, performance, business ideas,
	and programming in your jammies...
In-Reply-To: <47921543.6070507@gmx.net>
References: <1200752666.2883.24.camel@leam> <47921543.6070507@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <4792AF3D.70005@tgaconnect.com>

David Krings wrote:
> leam wrote:
>> Not a question of "can you make it more performant?" as that's easy to
>> answer. I'm looking at "Is there a web metric that makes it more viable
>> for a small start up to spend time maintaining non-mainstream software
>> collections than using standard tools like Apache, Linux, and
>> traditional servers"?
> 
> Do you even need these improvements? If your current setup works out, 
> why bother optimizing it and potentially hitting a bunch of problems? 
> Improving performance is always appreciated [...] 

One time I was reviewing some C code which looked like it was
pretty awkwardly constructed.

I asked the guy who wrote it why he did it that way.

He told me that it was because the way the emitter (of the particular c 
compiler we were using) worked -- and he was right his way saved
some cycles.

It seems like there is always some trade off when you optimize
something.

It was like we had introduced a 'mental speed bump' in the
code. It had a pretty high WTF-factor, which whenever anyone
saw it for the first time they wanted an explanation.
That is, they didn't 'appreciate' it -- at least not at first.

(And, the people involved were not generally considered to be 'slow')

-- 

T. Gales & Associates
'Helping People Connect with Technology'

http://www.tgaconnect.com


From ps at sun-code.com  Sat Jan 19 22:40:40 2008
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:40:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Asian Font Display Issue in Firefox Web Browser
Message-ID: <002701c85b16$3a536090$aefa21b0$@com>

Yo necesito sus dos centavos. Y gracias in advance mis amigos. 

 

Browser: Firefox 3.0b2

OS: Windows Vista Ultimate

 

Certain web pages and/or web sites will display all or some Asian
characters 

instead of Western English in my on screen, inside the browser display
only. 

View source shows that the actual HTML web page, of course, does contain
regular 

Western English characters. 

 

Googling this issue gets me no practical results. And that is rare as I
usually can solve 

anything in a google search.

 

I found one dated resource that suggested that this was a UTF-8 issue.
That something 

somewhere was not rendering UTF-8 character encoding properly.

 

As an example, a page that is rendering partial Asian characters has
these HTML headers: 

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">

 

In Firefox in my Options >> Fonts >> Advanced,  I have these settings:

Serif font set to: Tahoma, 

Sans-serif set to: Arial Unicode MS, and 

Default Character encoding set to: Western (ISO-8859-1).

 

Any thoughts? Has anyone tangoed darkly with this evanescent insidious
weirdness.

 

Warmest regards, 

 

Peter Sawczynec 

Technology Dir.

Sun-code Interactive

Sun-code.com 

646.316.3678 

 <mailto:ps at sun-code.com> ps at sun-code.com

 

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From leam at reuel.net  Sun Jan 20 07:40:40 2008
From: leam at reuel.net (leam)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:40:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <9F4B00B9-6F8E-4B3B-B61D-A57C03579BEB@beaffinitive.com>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net> <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net> <478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
	<4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
	<9F4B00B9-6F8E-4B3B-B61D-A57C03579BEB@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <1200832840.2883.60.camel@leam>

On Wed, 2008-01-16 at 13:12 -0500, Rob Marscher wrote:

> Jon Baer posted some good links about namespaces in php... but I'm  
> surprised no one posted this link:
> http://php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.php

How does the require in:

	require 'MyProject/Db/Connection.php';

from http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.using.php
know that it's a namespace and not a filepath?

Leam



From urb at e-government.com  Sun Jan 20 09:17:45 2008
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:17:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Delaying form submit
In-Reply-To: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080120091503.032aae18@e-government.com>

This pertains to a CMS but the effect can be seen in PHPmyAdmin.

If the form is large and someone click on Submit before the form has
fully downloaded the contents in the unloaded portion are truncated.

Does anyone have a suggest of a way to not allow a submit until the
entire form has downloaded?

Thanks

Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
609-294-0320  800-204-9545
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.




From ben at projectskyline.com  Sun Jan 20 11:16:14 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:16:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Delaying form submit
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080120091503.032aae18@e-government.com>
References: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080120091503.032aae18@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <479373CE.4020506@projectskyline.com>

Hello Urb,

I believe this came up a few months ago, and one of the answers was
setting a variable at the END of the form. You could then check for the 
existence
of this variable, and if found, assume the form has been loaded.

You might be able to use something like jquery to check that each form 
element
is contained within the page, and to not submit the form if any are missing.

Jquery has awesome DOM traversing abilities and is a pleasure to work 
with VS javascript.

- Ben

Urb LeJeune wrote:
> This pertains to a CMS but the effect can be seen in PHPmyAdmin.
>
> If the form is large and someone click on Submit before the form has
> fully downloaded the contents in the unloaded portion are truncated.
>
> Does anyone have a suggest of a way to not allow a submit until the
> entire form has downloaded?
>
> Thanks
>
> Urb
>
> Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
> E-Government.com
> 609-294-0320  800-204-9545
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Sun Jan 20 12:05:36 2008
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:05:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690801200905o6b529d12t6da6e0a51436680b@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 18, 2008 1:35 PM, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup? Instead of getting another
> independent server, setting up rsync, etc. this seems like a good solution
> for backing up a server or sql database. Sure, my ISP does daily backups,
> but having more control by backing up the database off-site would make me
> sleep better.
>

I keep wanting to do this, but several things are holding me back:

1) How redundant/safe is S3, really?

I trust Amazon more than some other large providers, but S3 is a
high-value target and the SLA is for service uptime only. It doesn't
mention the possibility of data loss, corruption, or breach of
privacy... why not?

2) Lack of S3 support in existing tools/kernels

The weird http interface and naming conventions have made it difficult
to use S3 as general-purpose storage. I find it odd that Amazon's
engineers haven't developed a FUSE plugin for the service. There have
been efforts in this direction, but Jungle Disk seems to be the only
one that is decently organized and production-ready.

3) Physical storage gets cheaper while S3 remains the same

...and the monthly cost of storing the data is going to grow as your
backup archive gets bigger. The main reason to use S3 is that you get
(hopefully) redundant, (hopefully) geographically diverse storage
without having to pay for a server, rack space, and sysadmin costs. It
will be interesting to see if the price of S3 keeps pace with Moore's
law.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From ken at secdat.com  Sun Jan 20 13:39:46 2008
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:39:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <47914374.50901@beezifies.com>
References: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu> <47914374.50901@beezifies.com>
Message-ID: <47939572.8040406@secdat.com>

Gary Mort wrote:
> Yitzchak Schaffer wrote:
>> Greetings all --
>>
>> The current thread on beginner to intermediate has brought up Smarty; 
>> I have been wondering about the relative advantanges of PHP 
>> templating engines.  
>
> A templating engine has two purposes.
>
>
> 2) It provides a simplified mechanism for changing the presentation 
> logic, without requiring changes to complex code.
>

People have tried to convince me to use Smarty for Andromeda and I could 
never quite swallow why because it seemed to me that PHP *was* the 
templating language.  I also didn't like what I saw as a lot of 
redundancies involved in invoking a smarty template.

But yesterday Donald Organ convinced me quite thoroughly.  The argument 
was that your creative person who doesn't know PHP and never will can 
put a smarty template into Dreamweaver, play around with it, and hand 
you back something that you can just drop in.

Further, since everything we do assumes the presence of a complete data 
dictionary, we can just generate that tedious code that maps smarty 
variables to PHP stuff, and it could be quite a win.

-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010



From paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk  Sun Jan 20 15:58:20 2008
From: paulcheung at tiscali.co.uk (PaulCheung)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 20:58:20 -0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Differing versions of HTML
Message-ID: <000701c85ba7$30ce6d80$0200a8c0@X9183>

I am testing an "add record" routine and am using three different browsers 
for the test. The routine is filling in a form and it contains three options 
EXIT, SUBMIT and CLEAR all three functions are self explanatory and all work 
as expected in "FIREFOX". In "OPERA" the SUBMIT and CLEAR work as expected; 
but not the EXIT it submits instead. In MS Internet Explorer  "IE7" it does 
not work at all, apart from displaying the form, it is like looking at a 
screen dump.I am unable to fill in the form and the EXIT, SUBMIT and CLEAR 
are totally not working (locked).

Could anybody suggest where I could find information that will help me 
overcome this difficulty or let me know the difference in the HTMLs

Paul 



From lists at nopersonal.info  Sun Jan 20 19:20:40 2008
From: lists at nopersonal.info (B.A.S.)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 19:20:40 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Differing versions of HTML
In-Reply-To: <000701c85ba7$30ce6d80$0200a8c0@X9183>
References: <000701c85ba7$30ce6d80$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <4793E558.3050008@nopersonal.info>

PaulCheung wrote:
> I am testing an "add record" routine and am using three different 
> browsers for the test. The routine is filling in a form and it contains 
> three options EXIT, SUBMIT and CLEAR all three functions are self 
> explanatory and all work as expected in "FIREFOX". In "OPERA" the SUBMIT 
> and CLEAR work as expected; but not the EXIT it submits instead. In MS 
> Internet Explorer  "IE7" it does not work at all, apart from displaying 
> the form, it is like looking at a screen dump.I am unable to fill in the 
> form and the EXIT, SUBMIT and CLEAR are totally not working (locked).
> 
> Could anybody suggest where I could find information that will help me 
> overcome this difficulty or let me know the difference in the HTMLs

Hi Paul,

I'm not 100% sure that I understand the problem you're having, but HTML 
shouldn't affect the functionality or output of your PHP.

If the problem you're having is only with getting all three submit 
buttons to work properly, you might want to look at the discussion 
below, which I found by googling "multiple submit buttons php" (without 
the quotes):

http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=10248489

If you're having problems with the rendering of the HTML, that may be 
due to differences in the rendering engines of various browsers. Using 
certain doctype definitions can cause browsers to render in "quirks 
mode", which can really throw things out of whack. If you omit the 
doctype declaration (or if it is incomplete or malformed), most browsers 
will render in quirks mode.

For more on quirks mode see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quirks_mode

For doctypes see:

http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html
http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/valid-dtd-list.html

You also need to be sure you're not using deprecated tags for whichever 
doctype you've chosen as that can cause validation errors & other weirdness.

For validation I use the following Firefox Add-on:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/249 (I use the HTML Tidy 
option)

Last but not least, to find out if your browser if rendering a page in 
quirks or standards mode, paste the line of javascript below into your 
browser's address bar and press "Enter":

javascript:alert(document.compatMode=='BackCompat'?'QuirksMode':'Standards 
Mode');

Bev


From ramons at gmx.net  Sun Jan 20 21:18:43 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 21:18:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Differing versions of HTML
In-Reply-To: <000701c85ba7$30ce6d80$0200a8c0@X9183>
References: <000701c85ba7$30ce6d80$0200a8c0@X9183>
Message-ID: <47940103.8090904@gmx.net>

PaulCheung wrote:
> Could anybody suggest where I could find information that will help me 
> overcome this difficulty or let me know the difference in the HTMLs

There is really only one form of (X)HTML and that is the one defined in the 
W3C standard. Submit and clear are the standard submit and reset buttons. I 
would design the Exit button to be a submit button as well, but for a 
different <form> section. The target will be different than the one for the 
real form. The exit form doesn't have any form fields and when the exit script 
is called it forwards the browser back to a main page or where ever the next 
logical position is.
Here is an example of a plain login form with all the XHTML shebang around it. 
Mine is a bit more complicated, but I removed all the bling from it to make it 
even easier.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
   <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
   <meta name="generator" content="amaya 9.51, see http://www.w3.org/Amaya/" />
<link href="http://localhost:8080/file:/F:/piviviewer/styles.css" 
rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" /><title>PiViViewer - The Picture and Video 
Viewer</title></head>
<body onload="document.login.username.focus()">

<h1 class="center">Login</h1>

<p></p><p></p><p class="center">Enter no User Name and Password to view public 
content only.</p>
<form name="login" action="logincheck.php" method="POST">
<p>User Name:</p>
<p><input type="text" name="username" /></p>
<p>Password:</p>
<p><input type="password" name="password" /></p><br />
<p><input type="submit" value="Submit" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<input 
type="reset" value="Reset" name="Reset" />&nbsp;</p>
</form>

</body>
</html>



So, if you now want to add an exit feature I'd add this

<form name="loginexit" action="loginexit.php" method="POST">
<input type="submit" value="Exit" />
</form>

and in order to make all the buttons show in the same row, it should look like 
this for the sequence Submit - Reset - Exit (stick this into the same spot 
where the <form> ...</form> section is above):

<form name="login" action="logincheck.php" method="POST">
<p>User Name:</p>
<p><input type="text" name="username" /></p>
<p>Password:</p>
<p><input type="password" name="password" /></p><br />
<p><input type="submit" value="Submit" />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<input 
type="reset" value="Reset" name="Reset" /></form>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<form name="loginexit" action="loginexit.php" 
method="POST">
<input type="submit" value="Exit" />
</form></p>

You see that you can have more than just one form on a page. All this is plain 
standard XHTML and if a browser cannot handle that, uninstall it immediately 
(I know, impossible with IE).


If you want to read up, a quick reference is always http://w3schools.com/ 
otherwise see that you can get the XHTML Definitie Guide from O'Reilly. That 
is what I use since years and it worked out well. If you can get the book 
bundled with the CSS Defintie Guide, go for it.


If all this doesn't work out, post your code so that one can take a look at it.


David


From mikesz at qualityadvantages.com  Sun Jan 20 22:46:24 2008
From: mikesz at qualityadvantages.com (mikesz at qualityadvantages.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:46:24 +0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Delaying form submit
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080120091503.032aae18@e-government.com>
References: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080120091503.032aae18@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <999594835.20080121114624@qualityadvantages.com>

Hello Urb,

Sunday, January 20, 2008, 10:17:45 PM, you wrote:

> This pertains to a CMS but the effect can be seen in PHPmyAdmin.

> If the form is large and someone click on Submit before the form has
> fully downloaded the contents in the unloaded portion are truncated.

I had a similar problem with a long form and through an idea I got
from here was able to use $_REQUEST
to see if the form has been filled in and with what content.

I use a foreach loop to test for badguy content but I think you could
use a similar technique to see if the form fields are populated and
do a data verification test too.

You could add a hidden field with content to the end of the form and
test for the hidden content as well. I think that would tell you the
form was loaded, I think.

-- 
Best regards,
 mikesz                            mailto:mikesz at qualityadvantages.com



From ramons at gmx.net  Mon Jan 21 06:45:57 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:45:57 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Delaying form submit
In-Reply-To: <999594835.20080121114624@qualityadvantages.com>
References: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<7.0.1.0.2.20080120091503.032aae18@e-government.com>
	<999594835.20080121114624@qualityadvantages.com>
Message-ID: <479485F5.9070809@gmx.net>

mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
> You could add a hidden field with content to the end of the form and
> test for the hidden content as well. I think that would tell you the
> form was loaded, I think.

But shouldn't it then be sufficient to put the Submit button at the end of the 
form? Without a submit the form entries cannot be sent and having the Submit 
button show up last should make sure that the rest of the form is loaded.

David


From dcech at phpwerx.net  Mon Jan 21 06:51:30 2008
From: dcech at phpwerx.net (Dan Cech)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 06:51:30 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Delaying form submit
In-Reply-To: <479485F5.9070809@gmx.net>
References: <263347.23838.qm@web37906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<7.0.1.0.2.20080120091503.032aae18@e-government.com>	<999594835.20080121114624@qualityadvantages.com>
	<479485F5.9070809@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <47948742.3010706@phpwerx.net>

David Krings wrote:
> mikesz at qualityadvantages.com wrote:
>> You could add a hidden field with content to the end of the form and
>> test for the hidden content as well. I think that would tell you the
>> form was loaded, I think.
> 
> But shouldn't it then be sufficient to put the Submit button at the end 
> of the form? Without a submit the form entries cannot be sent and having 
> the Submit button show up last should make sure that the rest of the 
> form is loaded.

Not exactly.  You can submit a form multiple ways, one example is by 
hitting 'Enter' while the cursor is in a text input field.

Dan


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Jan 21 08:03:28 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:03:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] FW: [ANNOUNCE] NYPUG Inaugural Meeting
Message-ID: <00ef01c85c2e$04247bd0$0c6d7370$@com>

FYI - unfortunately it conflicts with our monthly meeting tomorrow.  I've
talked with Josh offline and I'll pass on any new developments that come out
of the meeting.

---
Hans Zaunere / President / New York PHP
   www.nyphp.org ?/ ?www.nyphp.com 



> Subject: [ANNOUNCE] NYPUG Inaugural Meeting
> 
> Several PostgreSQL users in the New York area will be meeting for the
first
> time at the Skylight Diner (http://www.skylightdinernyc.com/), where we
will
> discuss launching NYPUG.  The meeting and eating will start on Tuesday
night,
> January 22nd, at 7:30pm.
> 
> Also, Core Team member Josh Berkus, MyYearbook.com CTO Gavin Roy and Open
> Technology Group president Chander Gaesan will be visiting for Q&A on the
> upcoming PostgreSQL 8.3 release.
> 
> Come, join us!  RSVP to josh at postgresql.org.
> 
> --
> Josh Berkus
> PostgreSQL Project
> Core Team Member
> (any opinions expressed are my own)





From cahoyos at us.ibm.com  Sun Jan 20 18:40:09 2008
From: cahoyos at us.ibm.com (Carlos A Hoyos)
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:40:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] Asian Font Display Issue in Firefox Web Browser
In-Reply-To: <002701c85b16$3a536090$aefa21b0$@com>
References: <002701c85b16$3a536090$aefa21b0$@com>
Message-ID: <OF8D5C245B.DFE7C4F6-ON852573D6.00806675-852573D6.0082050A@us.ibm.com>

> Certain web pages and/or web sites will display all or some Asian
characters
> instead of Western English in my on screen, inside the browser display
only.
> View source shows that the actual HTML web page, of course, does
> contain regular
> Western English characters.

Your browser is interpreting your page in a different encoding than the one
it was written / transmitted in.

There are 3 ways how the browser knows what encoding to use:

The first one (takes precedence) is any encoding that was sent in the http
headers. These headers are sent by your web server..
If there's no encoding info in the headers, the browser will look for a
"content-type" in the html meta data (head) section.
Finally, if neither one is present, the browser will try to guess the
encoding based on certain character frequencies, or use the default used in
the preferences.

My guess is your server is sending in the headers a different encoding than
the one used to create your page.

If using apache, look in the httpd.conf file for addcharset and
defaultcharset. You can also examine the headers in FF using a tool like
livehttpheaders.

If this is only happening in FF3, it might be a bug for that specific
browser. Your best bet to fix this is to make sure your web server is
sending the correct encoding.
You can do this by tweaking your httpd.conf or .htaccess file in apache, or
in php sending a header request like this:

header('Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1);

Carlos Hoyos



From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Jan 21 14:21:56 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 14:21:56 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ruby gets another framework
Message-ID: <C3BA5B04.BE0E%cliff@pinestream.com>

See: http://merbivore.com/index.html

Interesting. So Rails isn?t the be all and end all within the Ruby
community. Makes me feel so much better. Just think, maybe in a year or two,
ruby will have 20 ? 40 frameworks to chose from!
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From ajai at bitblit.net  Mon Jan 21 15:48:23 2008
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:48:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ruby gets another framework
In-Reply-To: <C3BA5B04.BE0E%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801211540490.30734-100000@bitblit.net>

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008, Cliff Hirsch wrote:

> See: http://merbivore.com/index.html
> 
> Interesting. So Rails isn?t the be all and end all within the Ruby
> community. Makes me feel so much better. Just think, maybe in a year or two,
> ruby will have 20 ? 40 frameworks to chose from!

There's also the Camping (micro)framework: 
http://code.whytheluckystiff.net/camping/

(Not that this is news in the NYC Ruby/Rails community).

As I said to a friend recently, there's really not much you can't do in 
PHP too. A lot of Rails' ideas have flowed back into various PHP 
frameworks (which is a Good Thing).

You could also read Zed Shaw's "Rails is a Ghetto" rant for some community 
insight (just ignore the bit where he says PHP programmers are morons!).



-- 
Aj.



From cliff at pinestream.com  Mon Jan 21 20:52:44 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:52:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?
Message-ID: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>

Have I asked this already? If so, my apologies. First the vision went, now
perhaps the memory ? I?m not sure, can?t remember...

So I negotiated 4Gig of memory in my server. Hey, ya always got to ask for a
little ?extra.? I got 15K scsci drives and know what to do with them. The
question is, what do I do with all that memory?

Throw a few more shims at apc? Set up memcached? Allocate some to an mysql
cache, if there is such a thing. Other ideas? I got it, so may as well start
working on making the best use of it. Suggestions?

Cliff

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From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Mon Jan 21 21:16:16 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:16:16 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?
In-Reply-To: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <827E6FC0-DD03-447A-9264-0152EE2D187E@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 21, 2008, at 8:52 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Have I asked this already?

I don't think so :)

> So I negotiated 4Gig of memory in my server. Hey, ya always got to  
> ask for a little ?extra.? I got 15K scsci drives and know what to do  
> with them. The question is, what do I do with all that memory?

I have a similar server that I increased all of the mysql buffers on,  
gave 1GB to memcached (amazing how much you can fit in 1GB...  
especially compressed data), and then have a sphinx search server  
running on it as well.  Those three apps have been running pretty  
happily for 6 months now.  This server is strictly mysql, memcached,  
and searchd -- no apache... so there wasn't a real need for increasing  
apc's cache -- but if you are running a web server on yours...  
increasing APC is definitely a good thing to do.  In fact... if your  
app is entirely contained to this server, I'd recommend using APC over  
memcache because it's faster.  The main benefit of memcached is that  
you can access it over the network and it can be spread among a bunch  
of servers.  If you have multiple front-end servers, they can all use  
the same memcache -- the cache doesn't need to be repeated on multiple  
servers.

A side note about the mysql cache... I've learned that it's best to  
use it only on demand when you know that a query is cachable.  The  
cache gets invalidated every time an update/insert is made on one of  
the underlying tables (that's my primary reason for using a different  
cache solution -- I actually use a combo of APC, memcache, and  
sqlite).  Because of the way the cache gets invalidated, your wasting  
a lot of effort if you enable the query cache on sql statements for  
tables that change frequently.

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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Mon Jan 21 23:07:00 2008
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:07:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Securing memcached
Message-ID: <b76252690801212007s5327766fi5f2f837bfea238ca@mail.gmail.com>

Based on the buzz about how great memcached is, I'm considering using
it to provide session support across multiple front ends. But I'm a
little troubled by the lack of application-level access control. As
in, no passwords.

If you use memcached, how do you secure it against unauthorized access
by some other application?

Do you use some sort of TCP wrapper? Do you sign or encrypt values?

Or are firewall rules the only answer?

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From lists at zaunere.com  Mon Jan 21 23:27:44 2008
From: lists at zaunere.com (Hans Zaunere)
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:27:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?
In-Reply-To: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <003001c85caf$22b09850$6811c8f0$@com>

> So I negotiated 4Gig of memory in my server. Hey, ya always got to ask for
a
> little "extra." I got 15K scsci drives and know what to do with them. The

I'm curious as to what you'll be doing with the 15k SCSIs - that would help
shed some light on how the RAM would be best used.

> question is, what do I do with all that memory?

What type of CPU(s)?

> Throw a few more shims at apc? Set up memcached? Allocate some to an mysql
> cache, if there is such a thing. Other ideas? I got it, so may as well
start
> working on making the best use of it. Suggestions?

Typically large amounts of RAM are best thrown in the database's direction.
In MySQL, it's probably not at the query cache so much, but rather at
buffers.  Which buffers?  That of course depends on your table types,
general schema layout, and query pattern.

If the database is very heavy on reads, then the query cache might actually
make sense.  If you have a lot of rows, or a competitive read/write ratio,
then it's probably more likely that the query cache will always get
invalidated, and thus you want to support the indexes and tables themselves.
Or maybe the application would be best behooved by memory/heap tables?

I take it this box will host the full AMP stack.  Unless you have tons of
code, throwing the RAM at APC probably won't help much.  If you already have
MySQL running on the same server, then I'd question the need for memcached.

If nothing else, you'll have a nice big filesystem/kernel cache - maybe
you're serving a lot of media or static files?

H




From ramons at gmx.net  Tue Jan 22 06:40:49 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 06:40:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?
In-Reply-To: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <4795D641.9010506@gmx.net>

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Have I asked this already? If so, my apologies. First the vision went, 
> now perhaps the memory ? I?m not sure, can?t remember...
> 
> So I negotiated 4Gig of memory in my server. Hey, ya always got to ask 
> for a little ?extra.? I got 15K scsci drives and know what to do with 
> them. The question is, what do I do with all that memory?
> 
> Throw a few more shims at apc? Set up memcached? Allocate some to an 
> mysql cache, if there is such a thing. Other ideas? I got it, so may as 
> well start working on making the best use of it. Suggestions?

I got $GB in my big box and it comes in handy for virtualization (so does the 
second CPU core). Other than that, I'd put the db tables that get most hit or 
that run the slowest queries into RAM. I once read that you can specify where 
a table is supposed to reside (memory, disk, others?).

I put a 15k disk into my server box as well. It is a refubished Fujitsu and I 
got it for cheap at a surplus store. Not only doubled that the storage 
capacity, that drive is really really fast...especially after I finally 
terminated the SCSI chain properly.

Other than that, you could see to get Vista on your box, that will take care 
of using the 4GB RAM and you don't even have to run any applications to fill 
it up.

David


From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Jan 22 08:03:51 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:03:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?
In-Reply-To: <003001c85caf$22b09850$6811c8f0$@com>
Message-ID: <C3BB53E7.BE74%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/21/08 11:27 PM, "Hans Zaunere" <lists at zaunere.com> wrote:
> I'm curious as to what you'll be doing with the 15k SCSIs - that would help
> shed some light on how the RAM would be best used.
I'm just using them in a RAID 1 configuration, hoping that they will help a
database intensive application riddled with inefficiencies such as little
caching.
 
> What type of CPU(s)?
Single processor, dual core XEON 5148LV, 2.33GHz

> In MySQL, it's probably not at the query cache so much, but rather at
> buffers.  Which buffers?  That of course depends on your table types,
> general schema layout, and query pattern.

> If you have a lot of rows, or a competitive read/write ratio, then it's
> probably more likely that the query cache will always get invalidated
I'm thinking a query cache sounds useless for a highly dynamic application.
So big buffers sound like a better strategy. Also sounds like I simply need
to collect data to see what the actual read/write ration turns out to be
over time.

Thanks,
Cliff




From ken at secdat.com  Tue Jan 22 08:53:09 2008
From: ken at secdat.com (Kenneth Downs)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:53:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?
In-Reply-To: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <4795F545.3040805@secdat.com>

Run vmware?  (that's what we're planning to do...)

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Have I asked this already? If so, my apologies. First the vision went, 
> now perhaps the memory --- I'm not sure, can't remember...
>
> So I negotiated 4Gig of memory in my server. Hey, ya always got to ask 
> for a little "extra." I got 15K scsci drives and know what to do with 
> them. The question is, what do I do with all that memory?
>
> Throw a few more shims at apc? Set up memcached? Allocate some to an 
> mysql cache, if there is such a thing. Other ideas? I got it, so may 
> as well start working on making the best use of it. Suggestions?
>
> Cliff
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


-- 
Kenneth Downs
Secure Data Software, Inc.
www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
cell: 631-379-0010

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From nate at cakephp.org  Tue Jan 22 10:36:25 2008
From: nate at cakephp.org (Nate Abele)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:36:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Re: Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <20080120161616.2D72A50808@mail.cakephp.org>
References: <20080120161616.2D72A50808@mail.cakephp.org>
Message-ID: <C73653F5-E779-4CB7-ACBB-5D27F1FBB935@cakephp.org>

> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:38:05 -0800
> From: "Tom Melendez" <tom at supertom.com>
>
> Hi Nate,
>
> Could you supply us with the benchmarks you've cited?  I'm curious to
> see them and I'm sure others are as well.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
> http://www.liphp.org
>


Symfony vs. Rails:

http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/Framework+Performance

Symfony vs. other PHP frameworks:

http://paul-m-jones.com/?p=238


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Tue Jan 22 12:05:44 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:05:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Namespaces
In-Reply-To: <1200832840.2883.60.camel@leam>
References: <47865807.6090700@gmx.net> <47877919.2080807@secdat.com>
	<4787853C.1010305@gmx.net> <478793FC.6080802@secdat.com>
	<4787980F.5040704@bizcomputinginc.com>
	<9F4B00B9-6F8E-4B3B-B61D-A57C03579BEB@beaffinitive.com>
	<1200832840.2883.60.camel@leam>
Message-ID: <ED2812E4-B87A-4DDE-824E-B25D65304138@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 20, 2008, at 7:40 AM, leam wrote:
> How does the require in:
>
> 	require 'MyProject/Db/Connection.php';
>
> from http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.using.php
> know that it's a namespace and not a filepath?

Hi Leam,

It still is a path.  It's including the file MyProject/Db/ 
Connection.php... but at the top of that file that gets included is  
this:

<?php
namespace MyProject::DB;

...


See http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.namespaces.definition.php --  
that page shows the contents of MyProject/Db/Connection.php




From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Tue Jan 22 12:26:19 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:26:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] facebook figures out memcache replication
Message-ID: <C750A6E4-DB9B-431B-869A-6298A4E0FE2C@beaffinitive.com>

I check out the facebook blog from time to time... this is interesting:

http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=7899307130

They added a second datacenter in Virginia for mysql reads... but they  
put tons of data in memcache servers.  So they claim that they  
modified mysql replication to include replicating memcache.  I wonder  
if they'll release the code... 


From ps at sun-code.com  Tue Jan 22 08:07:13 2008
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:07:13 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?
In-Reply-To: <4795D641.9010506@gmx.net>
References: <C3BAB69C.BE3E%cliff@pinestream.com> <4795D641.9010506@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <005701c85cf7$b4f93e90$1eebbbb0$@com>

Word.

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of David Krings
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:41 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] What with you do with 4Gig of RAM?

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Have I asked this already? If so, my apologies. First the vision went,

> now perhaps the memory - I'm not sure, can't remember...
> 
> So I negotiated 4Gig of memory in my server. Hey, ya always got to ask

> for a little "extra." I got 15K scsci drives and know what to do with 
> them. The question is, what do I do with all that memory?
> 
> Throw a few more shims at apc? Set up memcached? Allocate some to an 
> mysql cache, if there is such a thing. Other ideas? I got it, so may
as 
> well start working on making the best use of it. Suggestions?

I got $GB in my big box and it comes in handy for virtualization (so
does the 
second CPU core). Other than that, I'd put the db tables that get most
hit or 
that run the slowest queries into RAM. I once read that you can specify
where 
a table is supposed to reside (memory, disk, others?).

I put a 15k disk into my server box as well. It is a refubished Fujitsu
and I 
got it for cheap at a surplus store. Not only doubled that the storage 
capacity, that drive is really really fast...especially after I finally 
terminated the SCSI chain properly.

Other than that, you could see to get Vista on your box, that will take
care 
of using the 4GB RAM and you don't even have to run any applications to
fill 
it up.

David
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Jan 22 16:11:46 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:11:46 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
Message-ID: <C3BBC643.BEFF%cliff@pinestream.com>

Just an FYI to people for an obscure bug to be aware of -- one I though I
licked months ago.

Escaping output with htmlentities threw a warning and returned an empty
string.

Reason: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument

Root cause: cut and pasting text from MS Word in XP.

You have been warned.
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From jonbaer at jonbaer.com  Tue Jan 22 23:40:47 2008
From: jonbaer at jonbaer.com (Jon Baer)
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:40:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] [OT] facebook figures out memcache replication
In-Reply-To: <C750A6E4-DB9B-431B-869A-6298A4E0FE2C@beaffinitive.com>
References: <C750A6E4-DB9B-431B-869A-6298A4E0FE2C@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <56E29D4D-C267-4C04-8177-90204B0A46F2@jonbaer.com>

Pretty nice, I wonder if it is a fork of Brian Aker's original work ...

http://tangent.org/506/memcache_engine.html
http://tangent.org/586/Memcached_Functions_for_MySQL.html

- Jon

On Jan 22, 2008, at 12:26 PM, Rob Marscher wrote:

> I check out the facebook blog from time to time... this is  
> interesting:
>
> http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=7899307130
>
> They added a second datacenter in Virginia for mysql reads... but  
> they put tons of data in memcache servers.  So they claim that they  
> modified mysql replication to include replicating memcache.  I  
> wonder if they'll release the  
> code..._______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 10:10:17 2008
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:10:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <C3BBC643.BEFF%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3BBC643.BEFF%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690801230710j441f090du3f9ab0ac3ba17e0d@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 22, 2008 4:11 PM, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:

>  Reason: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
>
>  Root cause: cut and pasting text from MS Word in XP.
>


Neat. Any idea what the offending character or sequence was?


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 10:21:49 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:21:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <b76252690801230710j441f090du3f9ab0ac3ba17e0d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3BCC5BD.BF73%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/23/08 10:10 AM, "csnyder" <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 22, 2008 4:11 PM, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> 
>>  Reason: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
>> 
>>  Root cause: cut and pasting text from MS Word in XP.
> 
> Neat. Any idea what the offending character or sequence was?
Oh yeah, curly single and double quotes, or whatever the proper name for
them is.

The sequence was:
1. Wrote FAQ in Word on Windows XP.
2. Cut and pasted entries into database (can't recall whether it was through
my app or phpMyAdmin)
3. Errors start appearing.

Those curly single and double quotes are killers.




From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 11:13:31 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:13:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Best way to monitor log files?
Message-ID: <C3BCD1DB.BF8A%cliff@pinestream.com>

I was about to write a php cli script to monitor my log files for changes
and if found, email the file to me. But someone has probably already done
this. Are there open source solutions I should be looking at?

Cliff
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From jmcgraw1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 12:22:14 2008
From: jmcgraw1 at gmail.com (Jake McGraw)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:22:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <47939572.8040406@secdat.com>
References: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu> <47914374.50901@beezifies.com>
	<47939572.8040406@secdat.com>
Message-ID: <e065b8610801230922m61e083d7rd3f0bd40ad3e02d7@mail.gmail.com>

Another benefit is you (the programmer) have complete control over
what variables get passed from the script to the public facing
template. Hopefully, you've hired a designer that knows better than to
do the following and reveal your db schema to the world:

// Debugging
echo "<!-- QUERY: $database_query, RESULT:
".print_r($database_result,true)." -->";

But if you don't, you won't have to worry with Smarty templates, if it
isn't assign()'ed or append()'ed it won't show up in the template
(though you should watch out for {$smarty.*} variables.

- jake

On Jan 20, 2008 1:39 PM, Kenneth Downs <ken at secdat.com> wrote:
> Gary Mort wrote:
> > Yitzchak Schaffer wrote:
> >> Greetings all --
> >>
> >> The current thread on beginner to intermediate has brought up Smarty;
> >> I have been wondering about the relative advantanges of PHP
> >> templating engines.
> >
> > A templating engine has two purposes.
> >
> >
> > 2) It provides a simplified mechanism for changing the presentation
> > logic, without requiring changes to complex code.
> >
>
> People have tried to convince me to use Smarty for Andromeda and I could
> never quite swallow why because it seemed to me that PHP *was* the
> templating language.  I also didn't like what I saw as a lot of
> redundancies involved in invoking a smarty template.
>
> But yesterday Donald Organ convinced me quite thoroughly.  The argument
> was that your creative person who doesn't know PHP and never will can
> put a smarty template into Dreamweaver, play around with it, and hand
> you back something that you can just drop in.
>
> Further, since everything we do assumes the presence of a complete data
> dictionary, we can just generate that tedious code that maps smarty
> variables to PHP stuff, and it could be quite a win.
>
> --
> Kenneth Downs
> Secure Data Software, Inc.
> www.secdat.com    www.andromeda-project.org
> 631-689-7200   Fax: 631-689-0527
> cell: 631-379-0010
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>


From ioplex at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 12:58:17 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:58:17 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <C3BCC5BD.BF73%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <b76252690801230710j441f090du3f9ab0ac3ba17e0d@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3BCC5BD.BF73%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801230958w48175f7ewe401741f1be8280a@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/23/08, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> On 1/23/08 10:10 AM, "csnyder" <chsnyder at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 22, 2008 4:11 PM, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> >
> >>  Reason: Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
> >>
> >>  Root cause: cut and pasting text from MS Word in XP.
> >
> > Neat. Any idea what the offending character or sequence was?
> Oh yeah, curly single and double quotes, or whatever the proper name for
> them is.
>
> The sequence was:
> 1. Wrote FAQ in Word on Windows XP.
> 2. Cut and pasted entries into database (can't recall whether it was through
> my app or phpMyAdmin)
> 3. Errors start appearing.
>
> Those curly single and double quotes are killers.

The problem isn't htmlentities, it's the charset you're pages are
emitted in. If you emit an HTML form in ISO-8859-1 and then submit
garbage data, the database may store it as garbage and now you have a
simple garbage-in / garbage-out scenario. Feed that to htmlentites and
tell it it's ISO-8859-1 and you'll get an "Invalid multibyte sequence"
error.

Technically I think the browser should see that the page is ISO-8859-1
and squash invalid sequences to some default character like '?' when
you paste it into the form but accepting the data as-is is more
forgiving I suppose. If the browser was really sophisticated about it
it could pop-up a dialog that warns you and asks you if you would like
to transliterate those characters to ISO-8859-1 equivalent glyphs.

Use UTF-8 and the problem will go away. At least you won't get an
error. The curly quotes will remain curly quotes which means if you
don't see them and fix them and someone swipes that text off the page
and pastes it into an email that's ISO-8859-1 then they'll be squashed
to '?' or sometimes ugly rectangles.

I always use UTF-8.

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 13:16:48 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:16:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <78c6bd860801230958w48175f7ewe401741f1be8280a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/23/08 12:58 PM, "Michael B Allen" <ioplex at gmail.com> wrote:>>  Reason:
>>Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
>> Those curly single and double quotes are killers.
> 
> The problem isn't htmlentities, it's the charset you're pages are
> emitted in. If you emit an HTML form in ISO-8859-1 and then submit
> garbage data, the database may store it as garbage and now you have a
> simple garbage-in / garbage-out scenario. Feed that to htmlentites and
> tell it it's ISO-8859-1 and you'll get an "Invalid multibyte sequence"
> error.

> if the browser was really sophisticated about it
> it could pop-up a dialog that warns you and asks you if you would like
> to transliterate those characters to ISO-8859-1 equivalent glyphs.
I wonder if there is any way to detect this on the server side. Htmlentities
certainly catches the problem, but returns an empty string. Some sort of
friendlier filter that strips characters that are the wrong charset would be
very cool.

> I always use UTF-8.
I think I will too! Seems to be the way to go.





From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 13:43:44 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:43:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <78c6bd860801230958w48175f7ewe401741f1be8280a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801231043n45ecfceck7ef0d4f18238ee73@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 23, 2008 1:16 PM, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> On 1/23/08 12:58 PM, "Michael B Allen" <ioplex at gmail.com> wrote:>>  Reason:
> >>Invalid multibyte sequence in argument
> >> Those curly single and double quotes are killers.
> >
> > The problem isn't htmlentities, it's the charset you're pages are
> > emitted in. If you emit an HTML form in ISO-8859-1 and then submit
> > garbage data, the database may store it as garbage and now you have a
> > simple garbage-in / garbage-out scenario. Feed that to htmlentites and
> > tell it it's ISO-8859-1 and you'll get an "Invalid multibyte sequence"
> > error.

> > if the browser was really sophisticated about it
> > it could pop-up a dialog that warns you and asks you if you would like
> > to transliterate those characters to ISO-8859-1 equivalent glyphs.
> I wonder if there is any way to detect this on the server side. Htmlentities
> certainly catches the problem, but returns an empty string. Some sort of
> friendlier filter that strips characters that are the wrong charset would be
> very cool.

The clipboard on any modern OS automatically takes care of this.
Encode your pages in utf-8 and you will never have a problem in the
first place.  If you still want to check the encoding, use
mb_check_encoding()

Also, why are you using htmlhentities?  It is a useless function.  If
you want to escape html, the correct function is htmlspecialchars.
Htmlentities should never be used... it is slower, adds no security
benefit, and it unnecessarily makes the data unreadable.

> > I always use UTF-8.
> I think I will too! Seems to be the way to go.

+1 for utf-8

It is not really optional for modern web development because XMLHTTP
auto converts everything to utf8 no matter what encoding you use on
your page.  If you are not using UTF-8, any data that is not 7-bit
ascii will get screwed up if it is submitted using ajax.

Regards,
John Campbell


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 13:53:21 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:53:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801231043n45ecfceck7ef0d4f18238ee73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3BCF751.BFB3%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/23/08 1:43 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also, why are you using htmlhentities?  It is a useless function.  If
> you want to escape html, the correct function is htmlspecialchars.
> Htmlentities should never be used... it is slower, adds no security
> benefit, and it unnecessarily makes the data unreadable.

Because Chris Shiflett touts it! If it works for him...




From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 13:54:43 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:54:43 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <e065b8610801230922m61e083d7rd3f0bd40ad3e02d7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu> <47914374.50901@beezifies.com>
	<47939572.8040406@secdat.com>
	<e065b8610801230922m61e083d7rd3f0bd40ad3e02d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801231054i2f998d27r94e2f141a79f238a@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 23, 2008 12:22 PM, Jake McGraw <jmcgraw1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Another benefit is you (the programmer) have complete control over
> what variables get passed from the script to the public facing
> template.

If there is a separation between the programmer and the template
editor, it presents another problem.  Who is responsible for escaping
the data?

Do you do:
{$user.first_name|escape} {$user.last_name|escape}

or
$tpl->assign('user',array_map("htmlspecialchars",$user);

I tend to end up with a mix, and it can get quite confusing.  What is
the preferred practice?

Regards,
John Campbell


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 14:01:22 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:01:22 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801231054i2f998d27r94e2f141a79f238a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3BCF932.BFBA%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/23/08 1:54 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> If there is a separation between the programmer and the template
> editor, it presents another problem.  Who is responsible for escaping
> the data?

> I tend to end up with a mix, and it can get quite confusing.

Ditto -- and it is infuriating and time consuming to unravel later. I've
adopted the practice of adding a comment in the template to any variable
that is escaped in the code {*escaped in code*}. Saves a lot of time, 2nd
guessing, and code review later on.




From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 14:13:10 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:13:10 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <C3BCF751.BFB3%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <8f0676b40801231043n45ecfceck7ef0d4f18238ee73@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3BCF751.BFB3%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801231113s123a50a4uaa94d9c3cd091505@mail.gmail.com>

> Because Chris Shiflett touts it! If it works for him...

Shiftlett touts other goofy things, like storing htmlentities in the
database. If it works for him...


From ioplex at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 14:20:31 2008
From: ioplex at gmail.com (Michael B Allen)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:20:31 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <78c6bd860801230958w48175f7ewe401741f1be8280a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <78c6bd860801231120q4a3c72d7x67462f01178f6a63@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/23/08, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
> On 1/23/08 12:58 PM, "Michael B Allen" <ioplex at gmail.com> wrote:>>  Reason:
> > if the browser was really sophisticated about it
> > it could pop-up a dialog that warns you and asks you if you would like
> > to transliterate those characters to ISO-8859-1 equivalent glyphs.
> I wonder if there is any way to detect this on the server side. Htmlentities
> certainly catches the problem, but returns an empty string. Some sort of
> friendlier filter that strips characters that are the wrong charset would be
> very cool.

You could do that. You just have to run it through the iconv function
with '//TRANSLIT' appened to the output charset.

Although one thing to watch out for is to make sure that the form
input is really UTF-8 and not some strange Microsoft codepage like
CP1250 or CP1252. If it's not really UTF-8 then that's very annoying.
You would have to run the input through iconv with various possible
input encodings and some unicode encoding just to detect what the
encoding really is. Then, you can call iconv:

The following example uses iconv with //TRANSLIT to convert CP1252 to
ISO-8859-1 and convert the curly quotes to regular quotes:

#!/usr/bin/php
<?php
$curly_quotes = "\x91\x92\x93\x94";
$output = iconv('CP1252', 'UTF-8', $curly_quotes);
echo "[$output]\n";
$output = iconv('CP1252', 'ISO-8859-1//TRANSLIT', $curly_quotes);
echo "[$output]\n";
--8<--
$ ./iconvtest.php
[''""] (this should display as curly quotes)
[''""] (this should display as regular quotes)

But now if you want your application to support Cyrillic or some
non-latin encoding the transliteration thing doesn't work.

You could just simply replace the offending characters with str_replace like:

#!/usr/bin/php
<?php
$curly_quotes = "\x91\x92\x93\x94";
$output = iconv('CP1252', 'UTF-8', $curly_quotes);
echo "[$output]\n";
$output = str_replace(
    array(
        "\xe2\x80\x98",
        "\xe2\x80\x99",
        "\xe2\x80\x9c",
        "\xe2\x80\x9d"
    ),
    array(
        '\'',
        '\'',
        '"',
        '"',
    ),
    $output
);
echo "[$output]\n";
--8<--
$ ./reptest.php
[''""] (this should display as curly quotes)
[''""] (this should display as regular quotes)

Mike

-- 
Michael B Allen
PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/


From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 14:25:33 2008
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:25:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801231043n45ecfceck7ef0d4f18238ee73@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801230958w48175f7ewe401741f1be8280a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<8f0676b40801231043n45ecfceck7ef0d4f18238ee73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690801231125r69d48180u6e32990e8c8c85e7@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 23, 2008 1:43 PM, John Campbell <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, why are you using htmlhentities?  It is a useless function.  If
> you want to escape html, the correct function is htmlspecialchars.
> Htmlentities should never be used... it is slower, adds no security
> benefit, and it unnecessarily makes the data unreadable.

Interesting advice.

The difference between them is that htmlentities() escapes everything,
whereas htmlspecialchars() only escapes &, ", ', <, and >.

So what you're saying is that if an em dash or a smart quote or a
multibyte character exists in the content, it should be delivered to
the browser unescaped--or at least, there's no benefit to escaping it.

Do your pages validate? What happens in browsers that don't support
the characters you're sending? What happens in systems (such as RSS
feed processors) that don't support multibyte characters?

You may be right, and the use of htmlentities() may be old school,
like using web-safe colors. But if so it's not exactly conventional
wisdom, yet.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Wed Jan 23 14:33:29 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:33:29 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <C3BCF932.BFBA%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3BCF932.BFBA%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <044CC209-DCB9-4C31-BA02-90C408F0992C@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> On 1/23/08 1:54 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If there is a separation between the programmer and the template
>> editor, it presents another problem.  Who is responsible for escaping
>> the data?

I decided that the view/template has to be responsible for escaping.   
Imagine you have a controller action for displaying a listing... you  
could use the same controller action with different templates to  
provide:  an html view, an rss feed, a json/xml/etc webservice  
result.  Some of those will have different requirements for escaping  
the data.  For our company, the programmers do a good amount of the  
templates - at least provide an initial version.  We train any other  
template editors on escaping.. but usually it's already done for them  
in the first draft from the programmers and they only need to shuffle  
things around.  Of course... there's the issue of the programmers not  
remembering to escape things in that first draft of the template.  It  
would be ideal to do peer review and have some kind of testing via  
Selenium or something similar to make sure everything is escaped  
properly.




From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 14:50:48 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:50:48 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <044CC209-DCB9-4C31-BA02-90C408F0992C@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <C3BD04C8.BFC8%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/23/08 2:33 PM, "Rob Marscher" <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:

> On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>> On 1/23/08 1:54 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If there is a separation between the programmer and the template
>>> editor, it presents another problem.  Who is responsible for escaping
>>> the data?
> 
> I decided that the view/template has to be responsible for escaping.

I can't see how it can't be a mix. What if your variable intentionally has
markup? Some content may allow, and intentionally have, simple markup like
<b>, <ul/li>, <br> etc. Escaping this variable in the template would not be
a good thing.




From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 15:27:51 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:27:51 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <b76252690801231125r69d48180u6e32990e8c8c85e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801230958w48175f7ewe401741f1be8280a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<8f0676b40801231043n45ecfceck7ef0d4f18238ee73@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690801231125r69d48180u6e32990e8c8c85e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801231227o175872dbsf83dd4f6c3859ff2@mail.gmail.com>

> Do your pages validate?
Yes.  The extended HTML entities are not required. Check the source of
this page: http://www.w3c.de/

> What happens in browsers that don't support
> the characters you're sending?

I don't develop for browsers that don't support UTF-8... e.g. IE2.  If
they don't have a glyph for the character, there is nothing you can do
(html entities or otherwise).  Most browsers replace unknown
characters with a question mark symbol.

> What happens in systems (such as RSS
> feed processors) that don't support multibyte characters?

RSS is XML which requires UTF-8 support.  If they don't support utf-8,
it is not a legit feed processor.  I can't think of a single piece of
software that interprets html entities but does not support unicode.

Regards,
John Campbell


From jcampbell1 at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 15:44:34 2008
From: jcampbell1 at gmail.com (John Campbell)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:44:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <044CC209-DCB9-4C31-BA02-90C408F0992C@beaffinitive.com>
References: <C3BCF932.BFBA%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<044CC209-DCB9-4C31-BA02-90C408F0992C@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <8f0676b40801231244q2e32a290ia2532f4ecdd3b99@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 23, 2008 2:33 PM, Rob Marscher <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:01 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> > On 1/23/08 1:54 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> If there is a separation between the programmer and the template
> >> editor, it presents another problem.  Who is responsible for escaping
> >> the data?
>
> I decided that the view/template has to be responsible for escaping.

In principal, this has to be the way it must be done. I just get tired
of typing escape all the time.  Django escapes by default, which makes
a lot of sense.

I just discovered smarty has default modifiers:
http://www.smarty.net/manual/en/variable.default.modifiers.php

It seems like a good idea.  Does anyone use it?


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 15:56:26 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:56:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801231244q2e32a290ia2532f4ecdd3b99@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3BD142A.BFDD%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/23/08 3:44 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just discovered smarty has default modifiers:
> http://www.smarty.net/manual/en/variable.default.modifiers.php
> 
> It seems like a good idea.  Does anyone use it?

Not a bad ideas as long as you can override it. I pass plenty of stuff
"upstream" that should not be escaped. But I like the default idea.

Smarty does have an override: {$var|smarty:nodefaults} to cover the
exceptions.




From susan_shemin at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 23 15:59:26 2008
From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:59:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
Message-ID: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you use to filter acceptable data into textbox form?

If so, can you explain exactly what is being used (e.g., htmlentities) and how to use it?

Actually I need to filter out nonpermitted characters since someone put a Viagra advertisement into the php blog I created!  (Caught it quite quickly and deleted the entry from the database.)  I'd like to exclude "www." from being entered into a form.

Susan
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From ben at projectskyline.com  Wed Jan 23 16:09:25 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:09:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
In-Reply-To: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4797AD05.5080004@projectskyline.com>

what about http://myViagra.com?

You'll probably need a robust solution for managing all the crap people 
can stick into your blog comment space.
Is it a home made blog? (Your own code?) or an off the shelf thing?

- Ben

Susan Shemin wrote:
> Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you use 
> to filter acceptable data into textbox form?
>  
> If so, can you explain exactly what is being used (e.g., htmlentities) 
> and how to use it?
>  
> Actually I need to filter out nonpermitted characters since someone 
> put a Viagra advertisement into the php blog I created!  (Caught it 
> quite quickly and deleted the entry from the database.)  I'd like to 
> exclude "www." from being entered into a form.
>  
> Susan
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From david at davidmintz.org  Wed Jan 23 16:42:12 2008
From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 16:42:12 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
In-Reply-To: <4797AD05.5080004@projectskyline.com>
References: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<4797AD05.5080004@projectskyline.com>
Message-ID: <721f1cc50801231342n69840780u617bc2d20deb5b69@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like you're talking about input filtering. By escaping I think we
generally mean on the output side. If for example you want to display in a
form textfield the text

       John "KIller" Somebody

what would happen if you don't replace the quote characters with the
corresponding html entity?

       <input type="text" value="John "KIller" Somebody" />

Premature field termination. That's just one example. If there were evil
javascript in there and you didn't escape it, one user could enter something
that would allow  her/him to steal another user's cookies and hijack her/his
session, for example. Cross-site scripting, they call it.

http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.htmlentities.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting



On Jan 23, 2008 4:09 PM, Ben Sgro <ben at projectskyline.com> wrote:

> what about http://myViagra.com?
>
> You'll probably need a robust solution for managing all the crap people
> can stick into your blog comment space.
> Is it a home made blog? (Your own code?) or an off the shelf thing?
>
> - Ben
>
> Susan Shemin wrote:
> > Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you use
> > to filter acceptable data into textbox form?
> >
> > If so, can you explain exactly what is being used (e.g., htmlentities)
> > and how to use it?
> >
> > Actually I need to filter out nonpermitted characters since someone
> > put a Viagra advertisement into the php blog I created!  (Caught it
> > quite quickly and deleted the entry from the database.)  I'd like to
> > exclude "www." from being entered into a form.
> >
> > Susan
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

The subtle source is clear and bright
The tributary streams flow through the darkness
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From danielc at analysisandsolutions.com  Wed Jan 23 17:34:01 2008
From: danielc at analysisandsolutions.com (Daniel Convissor)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:34:01 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801231054i2f998d27r94e2f141a79f238a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <478F6F84.5040305@touro.edu> <47914374.50901@beezifies.com>
	<47939572.8040406@secdat.com>
	<e065b8610801230922m61e083d7rd3f0bd40ad3e02d7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f0676b40801231054i2f998d27r94e2f141a79f238a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080123223401.GA26460@panix.com>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2008 at 01:54:43PM -0500, John Campbell wrote:
> 
> If there is a separation between the programmer and the template
> editor, it presents another problem.  Who is responsible for escaping
> the data?
>
> Do you do:
> {$user.first_name|escape} {$user.last_name|escape}

Here, the folks use a customized class that extends Smarty.  Our 
constructor adds a default_modifier.  This way _all_ variables 
automatically get escaped, unless a given template specifically says to 
get the variable with nodefaults.

http://www.smarty.net/manual/en/variable.default.modifiers.php

Here's how we do it, specifically, in the __construct() method:

  $this->register_modifier('myescape', array($this, 'myescape'));
  $this->default_modifiers = array('myescape');

Then there's a myescape() method in the class.

>From the manual, it seems one could just rely on Smarty's escape 
mechanism by just doing this in the constuctor:

  $this->default_modifiers = array('escape:html');

Now there's no guessing, no need to write "|escape" in each variable use 
and no manually escaping the stuff in your PHP.

--Dan

-- 
 T H E   A N A L Y S I S   A N D   S O L U T I O N S   C O M P A N Y
            data intensive web and database programming
                http://www.AnalysisAndSolutions.com/
 4015 7th Ave #4, Brooklyn NY 11232  v: 718-854-0335 f: 718-854-0409


From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 23 17:40:33 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:40:33 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <20080123223401.GA26460@panix.com>
Message-ID: <C3BD2C91.BFF0%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/23/08 5:34 PM, "Daniel Convissor" <danielc at analysisandsolutions.com>
> Now there's no guessing, no need to write "|escape" in each variable use
> and no manually escaping the stuff in your PHP.

Just thought of a potential gotcha. Smarty also has a nl2br function. You
would want to escape before nl2br, otherwise your <br> tags would be
escaped. I wonder what the default order is for the default escape -- first
or last.




From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 23 18:33:00 2008
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:33:00 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] htmlentities charset bug
In-Reply-To: <8f0676b40801231227o175872dbsf83dd4f6c3859ff2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <78c6bd860801230958w48175f7ewe401741f1be8280a@mail.gmail.com>
	<C3BCEEC0.BFA3%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<8f0676b40801231043n45ecfceck7ef0d4f18238ee73@mail.gmail.com>
	<b76252690801231125r69d48180u6e32990e8c8c85e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f0676b40801231227o175872dbsf83dd4f6c3859ff2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690801231533m7770fcm2f4d7ef75fd8a85f@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 23, 2008 3:27 PM, John Campbell <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Do your pages validate?
> Yes.  The extended HTML entities are not required. Check the source of
> this page: http://www.w3c.de/
>
> > What happens in browsers that don't support
> > the characters you're sending?
>
> I don't develop for browsers that don't support UTF-8... e.g. IE2.  If
> they don't have a glyph for the character, there is nothing you can do
> (html entities or otherwise).  Most browsers replace unknown
> characters with a question mark symbol.
>
> > What happens in systems (such as RSS
> > feed processors) that don't support multibyte characters?
>
> RSS is XML which requires UTF-8 support.  If they don't support utf-8,
> it is not a legit feed processor.  I can't think of a single piece of
> software that interprets html entities but does not support unicode.
>

I put together a test page at
http://cs.dots.chxo.com/htmlentities-tests.php

Okay, I think I'm convinced. htmlspecialchars() is roughly twice as
fast, and sending straight characters conserves bandwidth over sending
entities.

I haven't found a browser yet that chokes on the un-escaped Word smart
quotes. Unicode FTW!

Thanks, John.

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From rolan at omnistep.com  Wed Jan 23 21:09:52 2008
From: rolan at omnistep.com (Rolan Yang)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:09:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
In-Reply-To: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4797F370.8080505@omnistep.com>

Dropping all submissions with "http://" will eliminate a good amount of 
spam, however you will end up with thousands of robot submitted messages 
which contain nonsense messages. I'm not sure how anyone benefits from 
this, but I see it a lot.
Ultimately, you will probably resort to putting a captcha on the form.
See http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/php/2005/03/31/text_captcha.html for 
examples.


~Rolan

Susan Shemin wrote:
> Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you use 
> to filter acceptable data into textbox form?
>  
> If so, can you explain exactly what is being used (e.g., htmlentities) 
> and how to use it?
>  
> Actually I need to filter out nonpermitted characters since someone 
> put a Viagra advertisement into the php blog I created!  (Caught it 
> quite quickly and deleted the entry from the database.)  I'd like to 
> exclude "www." from being entered into a form.
>  
> Susan
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Thu Jan 24 02:17:23 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:17:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Templating engines
In-Reply-To: <C3BD142A.BFDD%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3BD142A.BFDD%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <450CE222-D53E-4291-890D-F0C0856AB8E2@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 23, 2008, at 3:56 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> On 1/23/08 3:44 PM, "John Campbell" <jcampbell1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just discovered smarty has default modifiers:
>> http://www.smarty.net/manual/en/variable.default.modifiers.php
> Smarty does have an override: {$var|smarty:nodefaults} to cover the
> exceptions.
That's right... I remember seeing something similar in another  
templating system and thought it was probably a good idea.  I guess it  
will probably end up escaping more data than it has to... but it might  
save you from user error leading to xss attacks.  I always wondered  
how much of a blip in the radar all the escaping does to the server  
and if it would be worth caching some things in their escaped state.

On Jan 23, 2008, at 5:40 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> I wonder what the default order is for the default escape -- first  
> or last.

It's got to be first... but I guess I'd have to test to be sure.

On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> On 1/23/08 2:33 PM, "Rob Marscher" <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:
>> I decided that the view/template has to be responsible for escaping.
> I can't see how it can't be a mix. What if your variable  
> intentionally has markup? Some content may allow, and intentionally  
> have, simple markup like <b>, <ul/li>, <br> etc. Escaping this  
> variable in the template would not be a good thing.
Yeah, I meant that it would be a mix and the template would know to  
not escape (or to unescape with the nodefault modifier in the Smarty  
example above) variables that contain markup.  Probably a good idea to  
employ some type of naming scheme for those variables and make sure  
they are filtered when they coming from user input.




From anoland at indigente.net  Thu Jan 24 08:05:34 2008
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:05:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
In-Reply-To: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930801240505h7ea68f79p64ee4dd2d156eef6@mail.gmail.com>

In addition to all the other comments made, strip_tags() is helpful in this
situation.

http://us.php.net/strip_tags

As for excluding "www.", you need to do something like this:

$form_data = preg_match("www." "", $form_data);


http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.preg-replace.php

On 1/23/08, Susan Shemin <susan_shemin at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you use to
> filter acceptable data into textbox form?
>
> If so, can you explain exactly what is being used (e.g., htmlentities) and
> how to use it?
>
> Actually I need to filter out nonpermitted characters since someone put a
> Viagra advertisement into the php blog I created!  (Caught it quite quickly
> and deleted the entry from the database.)  I'd like to exclude "www." from
> being entered into a form.
>
> Susan
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>
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From anoland at indigente.net  Thu Jan 24 08:22:28 2008
From: anoland at indigente.net (Adrian Noland)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:22:28 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <1d8a0e930801240522p5c3845e6gd6d8e225cd23fca7@mail.gmail.com>

On 1/18/08, Cliff Hirsch <cliff at pinestream.com> wrote:
>
>  Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup? Instead of getting another
> independent server, setting up rsync, etc. this seems like a good solution
> for backing up a server or sql database. Sure, my ISP does daily backups,
> but having more control by backing up the database off-site would make me
> sleep better.
>
> Anyone have any experience? Good, bad, suggestions, ideas? Any other
> alternatives worth looking at?
>

My big problem is that it costs more to get data out than to put it in.

http://www.amazon.com/S3-AWS-home-page-Money/b?ie=UTF8&node=16427261
*Storage
*$0.15 per GB-Month of storage used

*Data Transfer
*$0.10 per GB - all data transfer in
$0.18 per GB - first 10 TB / month data transfer out
$0.16 per GB - next 40 TB / month data transfer out
$0.13 per GB - data transfer out / month over 50 TB

Not a scenario I want to be dealing with during a stressful situation.

Take a look at an actual backup provider such as raidarray.net or rsync.net
.
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From brian at realm3.com  Thu Jan 24 09:16:37 2008
From: brian at realm3.com (Brian D.)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:16:37 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
In-Reply-To: <1d8a0e930801240505h7ea68f79p64ee4dd2d156eef6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <374199.43237.qm@web50209.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1d8a0e930801240505h7ea68f79p64ee4dd2d156eef6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c7c53eda0801240616q32907149hf4385391948e6594@mail.gmail.com>

If you're using you're own solution, KCaptcha worked pretty well for me.

http://www.captcha.ru/en/kcaptcha/

It's fairly simple and it's algorithm is pretty effective.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001001.html

On Jan 24, 2008 8:05 AM, Adrian Noland <anoland at indigente.net> wrote:
> In addition to all the other comments made, strip_tags() is helpful in this
> situation.
>
> http://us.php.net/strip_tags
>
> As for excluding "www.", you need to do something like this:
>
> $form_data = preg_match("www." "", $form_data);
>
>
> http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.preg-replace.php
>
>
>
>  On 1/23/08, Susan Shemin <susan_shemin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you use to
> filter acceptable data into textbox form?
> >
> > If so, can you explain exactly what is being used (e.g., htmlentities) and
> how to use it?
> >
> > Actually I need to filter out nonpermitted characters since someone put a
> Viagra advertisement into the php blog I created!  (Caught it quite quickly
> and deleted the entry from the database.)  I'd like to exclude "www." from
> being entered into a form.
> >
> > Susan
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> > http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
> >
> > NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> > http://www.nyphpcon.com
> >
> > Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> > http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
realm3 web applications [realm3.com]
freelance consulting, application development
(917) 512-3594


From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Thu Jan 24 12:23:19 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:23:19 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <D5A1E44C-4024-4355-B50A-D9C6EB588691@beaffinitive.com>

On Jan 18, 2008, at 1:35 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?

Here's an oft-referenced article by Jeremy Zawodny:
http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/007624.html

I personally have only used S3 for serving/storing media and haven't  
done so on a very large scale yet.

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From susan_shemin at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 24 12:40:35 2008
From: susan_shemin at yahoo.com (Susan Shemin)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:40:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
Message-ID: <533924.28874.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Adrian, thank you!  Been looking all over for the code.


----- Original Message ----
From: Adrian Noland <anoland at indigente.net>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 5:05:34 AM
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] escaping

In addition to all the other comments made, strip_tags() is helpful in this situation.

http://us.php.net/strip_tags

As for excluding "www.", you need to do something like this: 

$form_data = preg_match("www." "", $form_data);


http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.preg-replace.php


On 1/23/08, Susan Shemin <susan_shemin at yahoo.com> wrote:
Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you use to filter acceptable data into textbox form?
 
If so, can you explain exactly what is being used (e.g., htmlentities) and how to use it?
 
Actually I need to filter out nonpermitted characters since someone put a Viagra advertisement into the php blog I created!  (Caught it quite quickly and deleted the entry from the database.)  I'd like to exclude "www." from being entered into a form. 
 
Susan

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com 

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
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From rmarscher at beaffinitive.com  Thu Jan 24 14:00:25 2008
From: rmarscher at beaffinitive.com (Rob Marscher)
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 14:00:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] escaping
In-Reply-To: <533924.28874.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <533924.28874.qm@web50201.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <02DB7F91-FEA3-44EF-B6AF-0A8091B9B86A@beaffinitive.com>

> On 1/23/08, Susan Shemin <susan_shemin at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Is this "escaping" that you guys have been talking about what you  
> use to filter acceptable data into textbox form?

The filter functions give you many options for filtering and  
validating user input:
http://php.net/filter-var

You should have access to the filter extension.  It gets built by  
default in PHP5.2+.

All of the different options for the third parameter are on this page:
http://php.net/filter

Note that they use "SANITIZE" for what we've been calling "filter" --  
it's because they have both validation and filtering/sanitizing under  
the "filter" umbrella term.

  
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From david at davidmintz.org  Fri Jan 25 14:40:41 2008
From: david at davidmintz.org (David Mintz)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:40:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <D5A1E44C-4024-4355-B50A-D9C6EB588691@beaffinitive.com>
References: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<D5A1E44C-4024-4355-B50A-D9C6EB588691@beaffinitive.com>
Message-ID: <721f1cc50801251140l67e9aa90xf2923dfab8803193@mail.gmail.com>

I use it to back up my several thousand personal JPEGs and other data, and
for under $2/month it is nice to know that my apartment building could burn
down and I'd still have my photo collection. I think.

There's a rumor out there that Google is planning a data storage service.
Don't be surprised if they beat Amazon on price -- and look at your sh*t to
see what ads to serve you.

On Jan 24, 2008 12:23 PM, Rob Marscher <rmarscher at beaffinitive.com> wrote:

> On Jan 18, 2008, at 1:35 PM, Cliff Hirsch wrote:
>
> Is anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
>
>
> Here's an oft-referenced article by Jeremy Zawodny:
> http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/007624.html
>
> I personally have only used S3 for serving/storing media and haven't done
> so on a very large scale yet.
>

-- 
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/

The subtle source is clear and bright
The tributary streams flow through the darkness
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Fri Jan 25 15:14:34 2008
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:14:34 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Anyone using Amazon S3 for backup?
In-Reply-To: <721f1cc50801251140l67e9aa90xf2923dfab8803193@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C3B65B86.BD04%cliff@pinestream.com>
	<D5A1E44C-4024-4355-B50A-D9C6EB588691@beaffinitive.com>
	<721f1cc50801251140l67e9aa90xf2923dfab8803193@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b76252690801251214o57be9c45i8481eaebaf8eefde@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 25, 2008 2:40 PM, David Mintz <david at davidmintz.org> wrote:

> Don't be surprised if they beat Amazon on price -- and look at your sh*t to
> see what ads to serve you.

The biggest difference between Google and most other ISPs:
Google is an advertising company.

They aren't in business to sell services to you, they are in business
to sell your attention to advertisers. I'd rather pay full price at
Amazon and know that I'm the primary customer.

Sent via GMail ;-)

-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From tedd at sperling.com  Sat Jan 26 13:36:21 2008
From: tedd at sperling.com (tedd)
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 13:36:21 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ruby gets another framework
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801211540490.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801211540490.30734-100000@bitblit.net>
Message-ID: <p0624080ec3c12d86d152@[192.168.1.102]>

At 3:48 PM -0500 1/21/08, Ajai Khattri wrote:
>You could also read Zed Shaw's "Rails is a Ghetto" rant for some community
>insight (just ignore the bit where he says PHP programmers are morons!).

We're not?  :-)

I have a client who thinks Ruby is the ultimate leading edge of programming.

Arrgggg -- I'm getting tired of learning.

tedd
-- 
-------
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com


From shaijudavis at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 06:37:03 2008
From: shaijudavis at gmail.com (shaiju davis)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:07:03 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IE Error - The security certificate presented by this
	website was issued for a different website's address
Message-ID: <30ce306c0801280337u508d7a4di7d6150951149c4c9@mail.gmail.com>

hi All,

 I'm having problem in IE7, when I try to take the https URL.
 I get this error " The security certificate presented by this website was
issued for a different website's address".
 I'm using VeriSign SSL.
 If anyone has idea, please help me.

 Thanks in advance.


Warm Regards
Shaiju Davis
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From ramons at gmx.net  Mon Jan 28 06:47:44 2008
From: ramons at gmx.net (David Krings)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 06:47:44 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IE Error - The security certificate presented by
	this	website was issued for a different website's address
In-Reply-To: <30ce306c0801280337u508d7a4di7d6150951149c4c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <30ce306c0801280337u508d7a4di7d6150951149c4c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <479DC0E0.5070208@gmx.net>

shaiju davis wrote:
> 
> hi All,
>  
>  I'm having problem in IE7, when I try to take the https URL.
>  I get this error " The security certificate presented by this website 
> was issued for a different website's address".
>  I'm using VeriSign SSL.
>  If anyone has idea, please help me.
> 
>  Thanks in advance.

Well, is it the same website and it gets reported wrong or is it from a 
different site and the error message is correct? As far as I know you can view 
the certificate information. Firefox has a function where you can see all the 
certificates and their parameters. It also allows for deleting a certificate. 
Maybe IE7 has an old one on file and comparing it to the newly issued one it 
doesn't match. Then again, crapware like IE should be simply ignored.

David


From nasir81 at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 06:49:45 2008
From: nasir81 at gmail.com (nasir81 at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:49:45 +0000
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IE Error - The security certificate presented by
	thiswebsite was issued for a different website's address
In-Reply-To: <30ce306c0801280337u508d7a4di7d6150951149c4c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <30ce306c0801280337u508d7a4di7d6150951149c4c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <158133309-1201520994-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-100263204-@bxe024.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi,

The reason for that error message is that you are trying to access the website using a different URL than the certificate. For example, if the certificate is setup for "mydomain.com" and you try to access the website using https://www.mydomain.com As far as SSL is concerned, they are two different hostnames.

HTH

- Nasir

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: "shaiju davis" <shaijudavis at gmail.com>

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:07:03 
To:"NYPHP Talk" <talk at lists.nyphp.org>
Subject: [nycphp-talk] IE Error - The security certificate presented by this
	website was issued for a different website's address


hi All,
? 
?I'm having problem in IE7, when I try to take the https URL.
?I get this error " The security certificate presented by this website was issued for a different website's address".
 ?I'm using VeriSign SSL.
?If anyone has idea, please help me.

?Thanks in advance.

?
Warm Regards
Shaiju Davis
 _______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

From radalapsker at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 28 12:16:40 2008
From: radalapsker at yahoo.com (-- rada --)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:16:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] RE: IE Error - The security certificate presented by
	this website
Message-ID: <126701.11982.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Most likely, your problem is that you think "something.com" is the same as "www.something.com" and in this case, it's not. Hope that helps!

Cheers,
Rada Lapsker





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From max.goldberg at gmail.com  Mon Jan 28 16:02:41 2008
From: max.goldberg at gmail.com (max goldberg)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:02:41 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Text versioning/manipulation caching architecture
	suggestions
Message-ID: <87e6ded30801281302k13c26e2fq7d6e56223c86dae1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello buds,

It's been a while since I've been active on the list but I figured I'd give
a holler and see if anyone had any suggestions for an application design
problem I've run into.

I have a large number of text fields across many tables in a fairly large
database all of which can be manipulated in any number of ways. Some common
manipulations would be scrubbing strings for display on the web (XHTML
compliance and XSS avoidance), censoring of "bad" words, rich-text, etc.

All in all, once you mix and match all of the various text manipulations,
you end up with a large number of versions of the same chunk of text, and
you need access to all of them based on a plethora of variables such as user
options, access interface etc. On top of that, some fields can be edited,
and I'd like to keep copies of the entire revision history, which adds
another level of complexity.

Originally I thought of some sort of memory caching solution, but the main
goal of this is to come up with a scalable solution and there is currently a
few gigabytes of text that this would apply to, so if anything it would
probably need to expire. It's possible that I could have some mixture of
short-term memory cache and long-term disk cache, as disk/database space
isn't a large concern.

Another issue is manipulation function versioning, e.g. when a new word is
added to the censor function, you want to purge the cache of all of the
censored text created by the last version.

Maybe I'm just over-complicating the entire thing, but doing this sort of
manipulation on a high traffic site seems like a gigantic duplication of
CPU-intensive work that could (and should) be avoided.

I've come up with a lot of solutions, but none of them seem very elegant.
I'm trying to avoid a lot of excess DB queries and SQL joins.

I've done some searching around and it seems like anyone who has solved this
problem hasn't discussed it publicly. I thought maybe someone dealing with
locale on a large scale might have come up with a good solution, but since
locale is mostly static, it doesn't seem to apply in most cases.

So has anyone dealt with something similar, or is there an obvious solution
that I'm missing? I'd be interested in hearing some of the more seasoned
NYPHPer's opinions.

Thanks for any advice in advance!
-Max
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From nynj.tech at hotmail.com  Mon Jan 28 17:12:14 2008
From: nynj.tech at hotmail.com (chad qian)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:12:14 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] about check box
Message-ID: <BLU126-W45ADAB1A53DC66E99DC16DE8340@phx.gbl>


Hi,
 
Here is my current code:
<input type="checkbox" name="checkbox" value="1" checked="checked" />
 
I want:
When checkbox is checked,i want to insert the value"1" to mysql database.
When checkbox is unchecked,i want to insert the value "0" to mysql database.
 
How to change current code to get what I want ?
 
Thanks!
 
chad
 
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
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From kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com  Mon Jan 28 17:38:18 2008
From: kenrbnsn at rbnsn.com (Ken Robinson)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:38:18 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] about check box
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-W45ADAB1A53DC66E99DC16DE8340@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-W45ADAB1A53DC66E99DC16DE8340@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20080128173818.juqcvtxtgcskwkoc@www.rbnsn.com>

Quoting chad qian <nynj.tech at hotmail.com>:

>
> Hi,
>
> Here is my current code:
> <input type="checkbox" name="checkbox" value="1" checked="checked" />
>
> I want:
> When checkbox is checked,i want to insert the value"1" to mysql database.
> When checkbox is unchecked,i want to insert the value "0" to mysql database.

Only checked checkbox values are returned to your php script, so you  
have to do something like:

<?php
$insertval = (isset($_POST['checkbox']))?$_POST['checkbox']:'0';
?>

Ken



From michael.southwell at nyphp.com  Mon Jan 28 21:44:36 2008
From: michael.southwell at nyphp.com (Michael Southwell)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:44:36 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] deleting cookies
Message-ID: <479E9314.8090400@nyphp.com>

I'm having trouble getting some cookies deleted.

I'm storing login data in the session, and setting a two-week loginID 
cookie to bypass the need to login again upon later visits. The logout 
script uses the following code to destroy the session (which works) and 
to attempt to delete the session and loginID cookies. But that is not 
working, and those cookies are still alive if the user navigates away 
from the logout page to another page, so she is automatically logged 
right back in just as if she were coming back a week later.
================
session_start();
$_SESSION = array();
setcookie( session_id(), '', time() - 3600 );
session_destroy();
setcookie( 'loginID', '', time() - 3600 );
================
What am I doing wrong?
-- 
=================
Michael Southwell
Vice President, Education
NYPHP TRAINING:  http://nyphp.com/Training/Indepth


From ps at sun-code.com  Mon Jan 28 22:34:58 2008
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:34:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] deleting cookies
In-Reply-To: <479E9314.8090400@nyphp.com>
References: <479E9314.8090400@nyphp.com>
Message-ID: <000f01c86227$ecaac400$c6004c00$@com>

Try setting the cookie cancellation time to something more extreme like:

setcookie( 'loginID', '', time() - 31536000 );

...this issue is vaguely familiar in that it may have something 
to do with the time(s) at server(s)/desktops(s) being out of synch and
that 
one hour set back of cookie date is not sufficient for all involved 
to see it as expired(?!)(Hunh?).

Peter

  

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Southwell
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 9:45 PM
To: talk - nyphp
Subject: [nycphp-talk] deleting cookies

I'm having trouble getting some cookies deleted.

I'm storing login data in the session, and setting a two-week loginID 
cookie to bypass the need to login again upon later visits. The logout 
script uses the following code to destroy the session (which works) and 
to attempt to delete the session and loginID cookies. But that is not 
working, and those cookies are still alive if the user navigates away 
from the logout page to another page, so she is automatically logged 
right back in just as if she were coming back a week later.
================
session_start();
$_SESSION = array();
setcookie( session_id(), '', time() - 3600 );
session_destroy();
setcookie( 'loginID', '', time() - 3600 );
================
What am I doing wrong?
-- 
=================
Michael Southwell
Vice President, Education
NYPHP TRAINING:  http://nyphp.com/Training/Indepth
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From shaijudavis at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 04:59:08 2008
From: shaijudavis at gmail.com (shaiju davis)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 15:29:08 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] RE: IE Error - The security certificate presented by
	this website
In-Reply-To: <126701.11982.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <126701.11982.qm@web54106.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <30ce306c0801290159ucecb780n12b6ab5dbcf6a8c1@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All

  Thanks for your reply.

  We use VeriSign Certificate and Certificate type is "Shared".  I think I
have to use the URL with  the servername for the Certificate provider and
userid. How can I check it ?

 Thanks in advance,

Shaiju Davis.
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From karthik.it2004 at gmail.com  Tue Jan 29 06:02:40 2008
From: karthik.it2004 at gmail.com (karthik k)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:32:40 +0530
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Please help me sir
Message-ID: <a58b761a0801290302s1d2b0158g9ef2af781618cb72@mail.gmail.com>

I need to update table2 with data from table1

the mysql4 code would be:
update table2,table1 set table2.field = table1.field where
table2.id = table1.id

how is this done in mysql 3.x ?




Don't limit your challenges.Challenge your limits.
                   Urs Always ,
                       K.KARTHIK
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Tue Jan 29 06:52:58 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:52:58 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Charsets revisited -- good book
Message-ID: <C3C47DCA.C28E%cliff@pinestream.com>

Revisiting charset, take a look at ?Building Scalable Website? by Cal
Henderson of Flickr fame. He has a good chapter of internationalization &
localization, along with another chapter on filtering utf-8, etc.

Cliff
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From michael.southwell at nyphp.com  Tue Jan 29 08:21:23 2008
From: michael.southwell at nyphp.com (Michael Southwell)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:21:23 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] deleting cookies
In-Reply-To: <000f01c86227$ecaac400$c6004c00$@com>
References: <479E9314.8090400@nyphp.com> <000f01c86227$ecaac400$c6004c00$@com>
Message-ID: <479F2853.5090308@nyphp.com>

Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> Try setting the cookie cancellation time to something more extreme like:

This sounds promising; it is quite true that there is often a time 
disparity between the server (which may be geographically distant) and 
the client. But it still doesn't work.

> 
> setcookie( 'loginID', '', time() - 31536000 );
> 

-- 
=================
Michael Southwell
Vice President, Education
NYPHP TRAINING:  http://nyphp.com/Training/Indepth


From ps at sun-code.com  Tue Jan 29 08:45:26 2008
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:45:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] deleting cookies
In-Reply-To: <479F2853.5090308@nyphp.com>
References: <479E9314.8090400@nyphp.com> <000f01c86227$ecaac400$c6004c00$@com>
	<479F2853.5090308@nyphp.com>
Message-ID: <002001c8627d$344e4d40$9ceae7c0$@com>

You should take a look at php.net setcookie remarks from users. There
are other unusual caveats both for Firefox (doesn't like blank/empty
string value in setcookie func) and IE (7?) has issues with how a
setcookie time is set in the past. There are apparently one or two
tricks for expiring a cookie with a bole an value rather than past date,
maybe. Meanwhile, are you sure have named your cookie intended to be
expired correctly? Is there an issue/difference in double quotes vs
single quotes in setcookie func? If you are hiding PHP errors then are u
sure that you expire cookie effort is in a valid area of the output and
that there is not somewhere in front of the expire call some output
already? 

Peter

 

-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Michael Southwell
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 8:21 AM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] deleting cookies

Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> Try setting the cookie cancellation time to something more extreme
like:

This sounds promising; it is quite true that there is often a time 
disparity between the server (which may be geographically distant) and 
the client. But it still doesn't work.

> 
> setcookie( 'loginID', '', time() - 31536000 );
> 

-- 
=================
Michael Southwell
Vice President, Education
NYPHP TRAINING:  http://nyphp.com/Training/Indepth
_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php



From ben at projectskyline.com  Tue Jan 29 09:52:25 2008
From: ben at projectskyline.com (Ben Sgro)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 09:52:25 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Charsets revisited -- good book
In-Reply-To: <C3C47DCA.C28E%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C3C47DCA.C28E%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <479F3DA9.9050507@projectskyline.com>

+1, yes good book, lots of detail and source provided.

Cliff Hirsch wrote:
> Revisiting charset, take a look at ?Building Scalable Website? by Cal 
> Henderson of Flickr fame. He has a good chapter of 
> internationalization & localization, along with another chapter on 
> filtering utf-8, etc.
>
> Cliff
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From rrothe at ana.net  Tue Jan 29 13:51:52 2008
From: rrothe at ana.net (Rothe, Robert)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:51:52 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080110203219.029c12e0@e-government.com>
References: <477E9E85.8030407@beezifies.com><C3A972CC.58840%rahmin@insite-out.com><7.0.1.0.2.20080108212255.02b2e290@e-government.com><47843F2F.7080608@gmx.net>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080110203219.029c12e0@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <57E3058A613A8D45894BC136B27E96F922FE24@anaexch-nyc.ANA.NET>

I use tinyMCE.  There is a "Paste from Word" plug-in (available as part
of the base install), that addresses this issue.  Add "paste" to the
plugin line and "pasteword" to the theme_advanced_buttons?_add config
directive.



-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Urb LeJeune
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:33 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] WYSIWYG editors

Thanks to all who responded to my request for suggestions on
WYSIWYG editors.

Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
609-294-0320  800-204-9545
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.


_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php


From dann at bentobox.net  Tue Jan 29 14:49:32 2008
From: dann at bentobox.net (dann)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:49:32 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Text versioning/manipulation caching architecture
	suggestions
Message-ID: <92547AE8-666B-461D-8BE2-E17B15ABD277@bentobox.net>

Hi Max,

I had a similar situation in the past involving a single table of  
Content Items which evolved from simple strings to elaborate objects  
with branching / staging, localization, history, and cached  
processing. The solution I implemented involved three tables:

1. Content Items: a placeholder for the item and its primary data  
(id, name, current version, access level, etc.)
2. Content Item Instances: the item value is kept here (id, item_id,  
version, value, etc.)
3. Content Items Metadata: the caching lives here (id, item_id, key,  
value, creation date)

When a Content Item is updated you'll increment its version number  
and add a new instance with the new value and version number (be wary  
of the potential race condition here). That gives you a full item  
history in the Content Item Instances table.

When an item is accessed you'll check its Metadata to see if a cached  
value for its particular processing key exists. If it does and the  
creation date is later than the update date of those processors (I  
use a single site-wide update date for simplicity) show the cached  
value. Otherwise create the cache and store it in the Metadata table.


Some notes:

You might be able to store the value directly in the Content Items  
table if you don't have to deal with i18n, staging, branching and the  
like. In my case I needed multiple instances per Content Item to  
begin with, and the history was a simple bonus extension to that  
implementation. You'd still need something like Table 2 above, but  
you wouldn't have to check it every time you need the raw value for a  
Content Item.

Likewise my metadata situation is a bit more complicated, as I  
actually store the caches on a per-instance basis. I still have Table  
3, but I also have a fourth table for Content Item Instance Metadata  
which is where the caches live.

You mentioned that you have many tables in your database that need  
this treatment. You may need to experiment a bit to see if it is more  
efficient to triple the number of tables in your database (ouch) or  
to add something like a 'table_name' field to Tables 2 and 3 above  
and use them for all your data. I suspect this later route may lead  
to some table size issues, however, as those tables tend to fill up  
rather rapidly.


I've been meaning to write this up for awhile; if the ideas seem  
useful I can prepare a more rigorous treatment. Let me know what you  
eventually decide to use, I'd be interested to hear how your  
particular requirements shape the solution.

-- dann


> Hello buds,
>
> It's been a while since I've been active on the list but I figured  
> I'd give
> a holler and see if anyone had any suggestions for an application  
> design
> problem I've run into.
>
> I have a large number of text fields across many tables in a fairly  
> large
> database all of which can be manipulated in any number of ways.  
> Some common
> manipulations would be scrubbing strings for display on the web (XHTML
> compliance and XSS avoidance), censoring of "bad" words, rich-text,  
> etc.
>
> All in all, once you mix and match all of the various text  
> manipulations,
> you end up with a large number of versions of the same chunk of  
> text, and
> you need access to all of them based on a plethora of variables  
> such as user
> options, access interface etc. On top of that, some fields can be  
> edited,
> and I'd like to keep copies of the entire revision history, which adds
> another level of complexity.
>
> Originally I thought of some sort of memory caching solution, but  
> the main
> goal of this is to come up with a scalable solution and there is  
> currently a
> few gigabytes of text that this would apply to, so if anything it  
> would
> probably need to expire. It's possible that I could have some  
> mixture of
> short-term memory cache and long-term disk cache, as disk/database  
> space
> isn't a large concern.
>
> Another issue is manipulation function versioning, e.g. when a new  
> word is
> added to the censor function, you want to purge the cache of all of  
> the
> censored text created by the last version.
>
> Maybe I'm just over-complicating the entire thing, but doing this  
> sort of
> manipulation on a high traffic site seems like a gigantic  
> duplication of
> CPU-intensive work that could (and should) be avoided.
>
> I've come up with a lot of solutions, but none of them seem very  
> elegant.
> I'm trying to avoid a lot of excess DB queries and SQL joins.
>
> I've done some searching around and it seems like anyone who has  
> solved this
> problem hasn't discussed it publicly. I thought maybe someone  
> dealing with
> locale on a large scale might have come up with a good solution,  
> but since
> locale is mostly static, it doesn't seem to apply in most cases.
>
> So has anyone dealt with something similar, or is there an obvious  
> solution
> that I'm missing? I'd be interested in hearing some of the more  
> seasoned
> NYPHPer's opinions.
>
> Thanks for any advice in advance!
> -Max
>




From 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com  Wed Jan 30 00:02:27 2008
From: 1j0lkq002 at sneakemail.com (inforequest)
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 21:02:27 -0800
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Two part question: Shopping carts & E-commerce
In-Reply-To: <C31417C5.7DD2%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <C31417C5.7DD2%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <23865-90360@sneakemail.com>

Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote:

>On 9/17/07 11:09 AM, "Mitch Pirtle" <mitch.pirtle at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>I can't believe nobody's mentioned Magento yet:
>>
>>http://www.magentocommerce.com/
>>
>>That's the one I'm taking a very very close look at...
>>    
>>
>
>Not production yet, last time I checked, but looks interesting.
>  
>
Can anyone in NYPHP land comment on the code behind MagentoCommerce.com 
at this point? There is a PR effort pushing that the actual code is 
exemplary, Open Source leadership stuff, while some observers are saying 
it's already bloated and very slow for a PHP/MySql shopping cart app. 
I'm not qualified to say, and I'm not looking for any controversy, but I 
would appreciate insight that  helps me understand how much this Open 
Source project will be good for implementors vs. good for the for-profit 
entity set up to provide support when used in production.


-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------
Web publishing has evolved. It's not just competitive, but aggressively competitive. If you don't know that, you're leaving significant profits on the table. If you do know that, aint it fun? --John Andrews Competitive Webmaster and SEO Blogging at http://www.johnon.com



From nynj.tech at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 30 11:25:42 2008
From: nynj.tech at hotmail.com (chad qian)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:25:42 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] create a 128-bit(32-character) guid
Message-ID: <BLU126-W3265E878923F521D2F64ECE8360@phx.gbl>


Hi,
I want to generate random 128-bit(32-character) GUID.When people register,they will get the link in their email inbox:
http://www.yourdomain.com/verify.php?username=((username))&validation=((GUID))
 
How to generate this random 128-bit(32-character) GUID?I thought but I'm lost here.
 
Thanks in advance!
 
chad
_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail?-get your "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
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From chsnyder at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 11:51:04 2008
From: chsnyder at gmail.com (csnyder)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 11:51:04 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] create a 128-bit(32-character) guid
In-Reply-To: <BLU126-W3265E878923F521D2F64ECE8360@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU126-W3265E878923F521D2F64ECE8360@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <b76252690801300851m408d20b3vc29308d6b953258c@mail.gmail.com>

On Jan 30, 2008 11:25 AM, chad qian <nynj.tech at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  How to generate this random 128-bit(32-character) GUID?I thought but I'm
> lost here.


See http://us2.php.net/uniqid, there is an example there.


-- 
Chris Snyder
http://chxo.com/


From radalapsker at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 30 16:22:43 2008
From: radalapsker at yahoo.com (-- rada --)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:22:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
Message-ID: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hello all,

Can anyone help me with heredoc? 
I have this code:

<?php

echo <<<EOD

This is a heredoc test.

Test line 2.
    Test line 3 with tab.

EOD;
?>

(I am using PHP5 and zend for editor) and I am expecting to see output with line breaks. Can't see them though, no matter what I do. The heredoc just outputs everything on one line, like this:

This is a heredoc test.
Test line 2.
    Test line 3 with tab.

Any ideas? I do not have any extraneous characters around the delimiters. I also thought the problem might be the line break style of my editor (Zend)
but I tried everything: "\n", "\r\n", and "as-is" (whatever that is..)
and still no go.

Thanks for any help!
Rada Lapsker




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From gatzby3jr at gmail.com  Wed Jan 30 16:37:47 2008
From: gatzby3jr at gmail.com (Brian O'Connor)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:37:47 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <29da5d150801301337j49a0ca90n6101b05fbbd5791d@mail.gmail.com>

I believe you would need to put the HTML tabs inside the heredoc to see the
linebreaks.  The heredoc puts it straight into the HTML.

I think you would need:

<?php

echo <<<EOD
<br />
This is a heredoc test.<br />
<br />
Test line 2.<br />
    Test line 3 with tab.<br />
<br />
EOD;
?>

- Brian O'Connor

On Jan 30, 2008 4:22 PM, -- rada -- <radalapsker at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Can anyone help me with heredoc?
> I have this code:
>
> <?php
>
> echo <<<EOD
>
> This is a heredoc test.
>
> Test line 2.
>     Test line 3 with tab.
>
> EOD;
> ?>
>
> (I am using PHP5 and zend for editor) and I am expecting to see output
> with line breaks. Can't see them though, no matter what I do. The heredoc
> just outputs everything on one line, like this:
>
> This is a heredoc test. Test line 2. Test line 3 with tab.
>
> Any ideas? I do not have any extraneous characters around the delimiters.
> I also thought the problem might be the line break style of my editor (Zend)
> but I tried everything: "\n", "\r\n", and "as-is" (whatever that is..) and
> still no go.
>
> Thanks for any help!
> Rada Lapsker
>
> ------------------------------
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
> http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
> Show Your Participation in New York PHP
> http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php
>



-- 
Brian O'Connor
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From cliff at pinestream.com  Wed Jan 30 16:41:55 2008
From: cliff at pinestream.com (Cliff Hirsch)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:41:55 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C3C65953.C3BD%cliff@pinestream.com>

On 1/30/08 4:22 PM, "-- rada --" <radalapsker at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> Can anyone help me with heredoc?
> I have this code:
> 
> <?php
> 
> echo <<<EOD
> 
> This is a heredoc test.
> 
> Test line 2.
>     Test line 3 with tab.
> 
> EOD;
> ?>
> 
> (I am using PHP5 and zend for editor) and I am expecting to see output with
> line breaks. Can't see them though, no matter what I do. The heredoc just
> outputs everything on one line, like this:
> 
> This is a heredoc test. Test line 2. Test line 3 with tab.
> 
> Any ideas? I do not have any extraneous characters around the delimiters. I
> also thought the problem might be the line break style of my editor (Zend) but
> I tried everything: "\n", "\r\n", and "as-is" (whatever that is..) and still
> no go.
> 
If this is going to a browser, HTML browsers don?t recognize line breaks.
Use a fn like nl2br.
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From urb at e-government.com  Wed Jan 30 18:08:03 2008
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:08:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <C3C65953.C3BD%cliff@pinestream.com>
References: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<C3C65953.C3BD%cliff@pinestream.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080130180651.02a04c28@e-government.com>

At 04:41 PM 1/30/2008, you wrote:
>On 1/30/08 4:22 PM, "-- rada --" <radalapsker at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Hello all,
>
>Can anyone help me with heredoc?
>I have this code:
>
><?php
>
>echo <<<EOD
>
>This is a heredoc test.
>
>Test line 2.
>     Test line 3 with tab.
>
>EOD;
>?>
>
>(I am using PHP5 and zend for editor) and I am expecting to see 
>output with line breaks. Can't see them though, no matter what I do. 
>The heredoc just outputs everything on one line, like this:

         The individual lines, except of the last one, insert a \n 
not a <br /> if you want new
lines displayed you need <br /> or the <p></p> tags.




>This is a heredoc test. Test line 2. Test line 3 with tab.
>
>Any ideas? I do not have any extraneous characters around the 
>delimiters. I also thought the problem might be the line break style 
>of my editor (Zend) but I tried everything: "\n", "\r\n", and 
>"as-is" (whatever that is..) and still no go.
>
>If this is going to a browser, HTML browsers don't recognize line 
>breaks. Use a fn like nl2br.
>_______________________________________________
>New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
>http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
>http://www.nyphpcon.com
>
>Show Your Participation in New York PHP
>http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php

Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
609-294-0320  800-204-9545
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.
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From smanes at magpie.com  Thu Jan 31 09:26:26 2008
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:26:26 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47A1DA92.9040106@magpie.com>

-- rada -- wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Can anyone help me with heredoc?
> I have this code:
> 
> <?php
> 
> echo <<<EOD
> 
> This is a heredoc test.
> 
> Test line 2.
>     Test line 3 with tab.
> 
> EOD;

print nl2br(
<<<EOD
Here
are
four
lines.
EOD
);

(Note: the close parens needs to be on its own line)


From urb at e-government.com  Thu Jan 31 11:17:24 2008
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:17:24 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <47A1DA92.9040106@magpie.com>
References: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<47A1DA92.9040106@magpie.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080131111627.03243cb8@e-government.com>


>print nl2br(
><<<EOD
>Here
>are
>four
>lines.
>EOD
>);

Doesn't the closing EOD need a trailing ";"?


Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
609-294-0320  800-204-9545
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.




From smanes at magpie.com  Thu Jan 31 12:38:09 2008
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:38:09 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080131111627.03243cb8@e-government.com>
References: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<47A1DA92.9040106@magpie.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080131111627.03243cb8@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <47A20781.1050903@magpie.com>

Urb LeJeune wrote:
> 
>> print nl2br(
>> <<<EOD
>> Here
>> are
>> four
>> lines.
>> EOD
>> );
> 
> Doesn't the closing EOD need a trailing ";"?

The closing parenthesis apparently takes care of the statement closure. 
  Actually, I believe adding one will throw an error.


From urb at e-government.com  Thu Jan 31 12:55:45 2008
From: urb at e-government.com (Urb LeJeune)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:55:45 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <47A20781.1050903@magpie.com>
References: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<47A1DA92.9040106@magpie.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080131111627.03243cb8@e-government.com>
	<47A20781.1050903@magpie.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20080131124957.02ed3c98@e-government.com>


>>>print nl2br(
>>><<<EOD
>>>Here
>>>are
>>>four
>>>lines.
>>>EOD
>>>);
>>Doesn't the closing EOD need a trailing ";"?
>
>The closing parenthesis apparently takes care of the statement 
>closure.  Actually, I believe adding one will throw an error.

         You are absolutely correct. I don't understand why however 
:-) The here doc structure is
a parameter for the function nl2br and as such I would think should 
be self containing.
         BTW there is no <br /> after "lines." The fact that there is 
no nl following the last line of
the document has always been a mystery to me. PHP supposedly allows 
white spaces in most
places. I could also never understand why spaces are not allowed 
after the opening or closing
label.

Urb

Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
E-Government.com
609-294-0320  800-204-9545
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
E-Government.com lowers you costs while increasing your expectations.




From smanes at magpie.com  Thu Jan 31 13:19:03 2008
From: smanes at magpie.com (Steve Manes)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:19:03 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20080131124957.02ed3c98@e-government.com>
References: <489528.7203.qm@web54103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<47A1DA92.9040106@magpie.com>	<7.0.1.0.2.20080131111627.03243cb8@e-government.com>	<47A20781.1050903@magpie.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20080131124957.02ed3c98@e-government.com>
Message-ID: <47A21117.2030408@magpie.com>

Urb LeJeune wrote:
>         BTW there is no <br /> after "lines." The fact that there is no 
> nl following the last line of
> the document has always been a mystery to me. PHP supposedly allows 
> white spaces in most
> places. I could also never understand why spaces are not allowed after 
> the opening or closing
> label.

In "classic" heredoc syntax, \nTOKEN is treated by the parser as the 
end-of-doc token, not just TOKEN.  In Perl, it's \nTOKEN\n.  This 
actually comes in handy for CLI scripts were you want to use it dump a 
bunch of text with a closing prompt:

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. Praesent est 
libero, rutrum in, viverra vehicula, consequat non, ante. Praesent nibh 
arcu, congue ac, bibendum eget, consequat vel, nunc. Nullam fermentum 
cursus magna. Nulla egestas justo vel ipsum. Sed vitae lectus in ipsum 
tristique ullamcorper.

Would you like to play a game of chess (y/n)? _



From dirn at dirnonline.com  Thu Jan 31 13:41:17 2008
From: dirn at dirnonline.com (dirn at dirnonline.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:41:17 -0700
Subject: [nycphp-talk] heredoc help please?
Message-ID: <20080131114117.9562cbc3556ac68f081dfda387a9f4ab.e3cd83735f.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

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From ajai at bitblit.net  Thu Jan 31 15:54:10 2008
From: ajai at bitblit.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:54:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ruby gets another framework
In-Reply-To: <p0624080ec3c12d86d152@[192.168.1.102]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801311540030.1037-100000@bitblit.net>

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, tedd wrote:

> I have a client who thinks Ruby is the ultimate leading edge of programming.

Right about now, they all do...

There's nothing in Ruby per se that you can't do in PHP but its hip right 
now.

> Arrgggg -- I'm getting tired of learning.

Welcome to the "sick-of-learning-another-language" club.

But seriously, as the cliche goes, change is the only constant in 
technology. Sometimes it makes you want to go work on a farm* instead

:-)



* You might be "Better Off" http://amazon.com/dp/B000FTWAYU

-- 
Aj.



From ps at sun-code.com  Thu Jan 31 18:20:49 2008
From: ps at sun-code.com (Peter Sawczynec)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:20:49 -0500
Subject: [nycphp-talk] Ruby gets another framework
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0801311540030.1037-100000@bitblit.net>
References: <p0624080ec3c12d86d152@[192.168.1.102]>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0801311540030.1037-100000@bitblit.net>
Message-ID: <005001c8645f$ea6e7f80$bf4b7e80$@com>

It is absolutely true, you must keep up on your ace primary coding
language and you probably should know one or two other primaries quite
well. But, try to keep in mind that your career is your job and not your
life and you must make efforts to collar your job a bit and meanwhile
concurrently get into some of the things you enjoy. Further... 

Paraphrasing very roughly from the book: Rise of the Creative Class.
More and more professionals (true creatives and otherwise) are opting
earlier in their lives to make their home base in fresh "creative"
community areas like Idaho, Colorado, New Hampshire, South Carolina and
New Mexico while still telecommuting their specialized work, and getting
to enjoy: i) more generally found gourmet foods, ii) traveling big city
entertainment, and iii) most other quality resources and services that
for decades have been captive to urban centers

-------
Essentially, since the committed for life one job career has become a
thing of the past -- one is essentially behooved to take more matters of
your personal, medical, financial and career life into your own hands
early on. Be more holistic about all your living. Flowing and
continuous. Not rigidly compartmentalized. 

------- 
Successfully programming intensely for a living is a very high stress
and often isolating experience. At the same time, it is one of the most
democratically attainable, portable, and flexible career paths out there
today. Yet, I think, it is doubtful that very many people are going to
become intensely rich from programming. 

So if you can, take advantage of the flexibility your programming career
offers to you that many other career paths do not offer to others. It is
almost your obligation to reap more of the bounty offered via your
career. Be flexible, be creative, take small chances. 

------ 
Paraphrasing very roughly again, from the extreme film Turistas, Dr.
Zamora advises: "To take the right action is great. To take the wrong
action is good. To take no action is unconscionable."

Live your life, don't watch it.


Warmest regards, 
?
Peter Sawczynec 
Technology Dir.
Sun-code Interactive
Sun-code.com 
646.316.3678 
ps at sun-code.com




-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of Ajai Khattri
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 3:54 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Ruby gets another framework

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008, tedd wrote:

> I have a client who thinks Ruby is the ultimate leading edge of
programming.

Right about now, they all do...

There's nothing in Ruby per se that you can't do in PHP but its hip
right 
now.

> Arrgggg -- I'm getting tired of learning.

Welcome to the "sick-of-learning-another-language" club.

But seriously, as the cliche goes, change is the only constant in 
technology. Sometimes it makes you want to go work on a farm* instead

:-)



* You might be "Better Off" http://amazon.com/dp/B000FTWAYU

-- 
Aj.

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