NYCPHP Meetup

[Peter Sawczynec]

You know, not being able to go forward with a plan/concept/task because
"well, you know, all of the things that need to be in place for
perfection are not in a perfect state" and so therefore we do nothing,
is not how inspiring, new, bold work gets done.

Most businesses/new processes brought about through fresh initiative are
just brought together as best as can be done right now while the iron is
hot and perfection is a state that is usually never achieved or at best
we just keep striving for it in process and product.

I'm not saying I've got the answer. I'm not saying Zend is the only
answer. But I think the lack of knowable skill measurement hampers the
growth and respect of this PHP business, hampers and hinders fluid
hiring and keeps a large segment of programmers stagnated with no known
career route/objective to strive for. 

I'd rather go to any business interview being able to say "yes, I took
the cert and passed" than not.

Peter



-----Original Message-----
From: talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org [mailto:talk-bounces at lists.nyphp.org]
On Behalf Of David Krings
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 12:41 PM
To: NYPHP Talk
Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] About Formalizing an Enterprise PHP and the
PHP+Developer

Peter Sawczynec wrote:
> d) we have a handful of large free PHP user groups and these groups,
say
> the top 10, should be formally recognized, and one should be expected
to
> belong to one of these groups.

I understand the motivation, but I don't think mandating a membership in
a 
club is helpful. And why just limit it to the top 10? And who says/knows
who 
the top 10 are?

> So what would be wrong if we just agreed as a professional group to
use
> these above entities as our bedrock standards. We use the Zend cert,
the
> Zend IDE/framework and officially sanction Php.net and
> Sourceforge.net/PEAR as the defacto outlets of help/reference and
code. 

Hmmm, I am not likely what one would consider "enterprise PHP", but I
have no 
idea on how to outlet code on Sourceforge and I think the Zend IDE
rapidly 
inhales big time. And while I do like a good IDE, I don't know if tying 
anything to a specific vendor is beneficial.

> We would not deny the use of, learning of, or the amicable
co-existence
> of any and all other outlets/entities, but the above noted entities
> would be the generalized initial standards.

I think it is not good to have tool X define your standard and outright
say 
that tool X is the standard. A standard should name specific
requirements and 
rules as to what needs to be adhered to. If tool X can do that, fine,
but if 
tool Y can do that as well and I happen to like it better, what's wrong
with 
that. I know you are getting at that, but "amicable co-existance" is a
no go 
when you clearly prefer one over all others.

> So as a new programmer in books/classes/tutorials you are always
pointed
> to Php.net for reference, you are behooved to use from and contribute
to
> Sourceforge.net/PEAR, you are prompted/guided/expected to join a
listed
> user group, and you are advised to get Zend cert and learn that
> IDE/framework.

Nah, have them look at the IDEs and frameworks that are available. For 
example, I think NuSphere rivals Zend (and I think it wipes the floor
with it, 
but that is purely subjective), but both are not free. I find that a
suitable 
classification of a free environment such as is the case with PHP ought
not 
mandate and benefit for profit organizations as is the case with Zend.


> And that a programmer who has Zend cert. and is a recognized user
group
> member can use the status of PHP+ user/programmer on their
> credentials/resume.

I don't know enough about the Zend cert, but is that a cash cow like the
cert 
programs are for Cisco or Microsoft? Are there any other PHP
certifications in 
place? Doesn't CompTIA have something like that?
Also, who would be the entity issuing the PHP+ credential? If there is
no 
place one could verify the credentials anyone can just write it on their

resume, which devalues the credential quite quickly. Also, is it to be 
internationally or only nationally recognized (such as A+)?

> 
> Just a thought. Now that could be a start.

It is a good start and a good thought.

David
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