NYCPHP Meetup

[Urb LeJeune]

> > My question to you Urb:  Would you consider me, a person with a non-CS
> > university degree (B.A.), and 10 years of actual paid experience, to
> > be "self taught" or merely "non traditionally formally educated"...?


         Good question. I think you are an exceptional person :-) Let me make
something perfectly clear. I'm a big proponent of non-traditional learning,
I didn't enter a college classroom until I was 44 years old. My under-
graduate degree is from Thomas Edison State College which is totally
a non-traditional educational institution.

> > It's true that the skills to be a good programmer were learned "in the
> > field" and not in a classroom but isn't that true of everyone?

         Unfortunately, that's true of most people through no fault of their
own. When I was teaching at the college level I was one of 13 full-time
computer faculty member. I was the only one who had ever earned a
nickle in the field. "Real World" experience makes a difference.

>And to
> > say "self taught" is to really underestimate the contributions of very
> > brilliant people I have learned from over the years including one Dr.
> > Jerry A. who posts to this list, and many others.

         I have hired programmers with no formal training and I know
people with a Ph.D. in computer science that I would not hire under
any conditions.

>I would also say, that many "professions" require practical experience in
>the field. Doctors have internships. Architects have to work for a firm
>for a certain length of time, etc etc. That looks like on-the-job training
>to me.

         Aren't you suggesting that a professional require formal training
as well as on-the-job training?

         Let my turn it around a bit. Would you go to a doctor who was
completely self taught? I once ask a fellow faculty member, "what is
the difference between a Public Accountant and a Certified Public
Accountant?" His answer, "about 50K per year."

>  Certainly a programmer that has a degree and has several years of
>paid experience ought to be considered a professional of some kind.

         It's really semantics. You are free to define "professional" any
way you like. Ask some non-computer friends how they would define
professional.

         Let me make a practical point. 10 years after the Financial Analysts
Federation announced there Certified Financial Analysts (CFA) designation
those so certified was making 56% more than their cohorts not 
certified.

         Someone ask a question, do we want the government determining
what qualifications we should have to get a programming job? Of course
not. However, shouldn't we have a national organization who, among
other things, establishes credential standards? The real problem would be
to get a group of practitioners to agree on the criterion for accreditation.


Urb

Dr. Urban A. LeJeune, President
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