NYCPHP Meetup

[SyAD at aol.com]

David, I'm shocked that a CS MS would require anything outside of the field, 
that seems very odd to me.  Maybe things have changed since the *cough, cough* 
years since I got my Bachelor's, but even when I was getting my Bachelor's 
(Mechanics and Materials Science, essentially Mechanical Engineering, from 
Hopkins), the non-major requirements (credits for liberal arts, natural science, 
etc) were down around 20 credits or less, and if you were clever, you could find 
courses that were useful.  The liberal arts requirement as I remember 
consisted of one year-long course -- I took Russian for that.
 
On the other hand, in-major course requirements weren't that onerous either, 
so I could take Electrical Engineering, Economics and Math Sciences 
(Optimization, Stats) to, in a sense, design my own major.  It's funny, even though I've 
been doing analysis/design/programming for all these years, I took very 
little CS.
 
Steve
 
In a message dated 4/16/2008 5:03:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ramons at gmx.net 
writes:

Kristina Anderson wrote:
> You have a valid point about the state certs...which could be 
> problematic...however, I do take exception with your characterization 
> of liberal arts courses and degrees as "garbage"...as a non-CS major 
> who is now in the field and also as someone who believes STRONGLY in 
> the "non-vocational, liberal arts model of post-secondary education" 
> (i.e. the university is NOT a vocational school).

Well, I've looked at programs from state universities for mainly science and 
engineering programs and depending on the university between 1/3rd and 2/3rd 
of the courses required have nothing to do with the major. My point is that 
after 12 years of public schooling a student shouldn't need yet another 
English or history course when studying biology or civil engineering.
I did not state that liberal art degrees are garbage, but the same would 
apply 
to those when an English major is forced to take an introductory physics 
course unless it is for the sake of studying the language used in science.I 
just don't think it is applicable to give someone a BSEE degree when the 
majority of courses attended had nothing to do with electrical engineering. 
That absolutely devalues the BS degree, but I squarely blame the universities 
for that.
See, I consider a university not to be a continuation of high school. A 
university is supposed to train interested candidates in a field of choice 
with the goal to make them subject matter experts in that field. This is how 
many other university systems in the world understand "higher education". One 
reason why foreign specialists are so attractive to US businesses...and the 
fact that under H1B via the employees are tied to the company and can be made 
to do the same job for less money.
I think the liberal arts model is purely used for the reason that most high 
school graduates are not ready for university studies. As a student I want to 
become an expert in the field and not have to learn about the geography of 
the 
former soviet union or learn polish to cover the foreign language requirement 
(this is what my wife took while getting her BS degree).

Just to make this clear, I did not evaluate and test study at all US 
universities, but I did look at the bachelor programs offered by several 
state 
univerties in the northeast. I eventually got my MS degree at CCSU and 
compared to the courses I had to attend at the University of Applied Sciences 
in Düsseldorf, Germany that MS level courses were a joke (except for 
Production Management). See, as a young person who goes into deep debt to 
finance a university education I'd want to get some kick ass training and not 
a bunch of fluff courses that make me redo what was covered in high school 
already. Why spend 1,000$ a course to take Art History 101 and Power Walking 
058 when going for a CS degree? I admit that there are courses that are not 
on-subject, but still very important, such as ethics (ask yourself if it is 
really OK to build the next nuclear bomb or the next 800hp, 8 ton version of 
a 
Hummer), human relations in organizations (be creative and do something else 
other than fire people), and maybe even basic business accounting. And if it 
is has to be a hisry course, provide one that applies to the major. I rather 
have a CS graduate who knows who invented the first applied programming 
language rather than one who knows all about President Hoover (no, he did not 
invent the vacuum cleaner). Maybe with better trained university graduates 
the 
need for certifications would be a moot point.

Also, I am in no way intent to ridicule BS/BA degree holders or suggest that 
they didn't work hard for their degree. I just think that especially CS 
graduates should rather read Complaint Management by Stauss & Seidel rather 
than Huckleberry Finn for the third time.

David

_______________________________________________
New York PHP Community Talk Mailing List
http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

NYPHPCon 2006 Presentations Online
http://www.nyphpcon.com

Show Your Participation in New York PHP
http://www.nyphp.org/show_participation.php





**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car 
listings at AOL Autos.      
(http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nyphp.org/pipermail/talk/attachments/20080417/9f66864b/attachment.html>