NYCPHP Meetup

[Christopher R. Merlo]

On Wed, Apr 16, 2008 at 11:43 PM, David Krings <ramons at gmx.net> wrote:

Huh? I got two university degrees and did so voluntarily. So what you say is
> clearly not the case. My point is that someone who for example takes a BSEE
> program at Alfred State College is required to have 132 credits for
> graduation. From those 132 credits 60 credit hours are for liberal arts
> classes and other sciences that are non-major. Not all of those may be
> totally off topic, but I don't get why a BSEE student has to take american
> history again or take an arts course (or even more than just one).


The reason is that Alfred State, like most colleges and universities, has a
mission to create not just workers, but educated men and women.


> I also think that a high school graduate should be capable of properly
> expressing thoughts in speech and writing and not needing yet another round
> of English courses.


Oh, if only.  Buy me a beer some day, and I will regale you with horror
stories from my closing-in-on-eight years in the trenches.  (Bear in mind
that I work at a community college with open enrollment.)  By far our most
popular courses are remedial math, remedial English (composition), and
remedial reading.  Just last night I taught college-age students how to
solve proportions.  And some of them still don't get it.

(Of course, if there is a silver lining to all this, it's that with CS and
IT enrollment in the toilet, thank Ged for so many remedial sections -- it's
why I still have a job.)


> Ah, c'mon! Reading books to children or planting trees or donating blood
> or driving people to their doctor's appointments - that is giving back to
> society. Getting a university degree is for the sake of getting a better job
> with better pay and ideally get some more exposure to a subject that one
> likes.


That may have been your reason for going to college, but it wasn't mine.
The university system is set up to be self-sufficient; that is, for every i
job-seeking career-advancing students, there are j students who intend,
formally or otherwise, to share their knowledge with the community -- as
professional (there's that word again!) educators, or as employers who hire
interns, or as other professionals who also blog (like Chris S.), etc.  Of
course there is overlap -- no one is expected to take John Lennon's lyrics
literally -- but there are lots of people who go to college for the
education they will receive, and the education they will pass on.


> How does getting a degree in finance and becoming a greedy investment
> banker give back to society? I can see getting a degree in social work being
> something that gives back to society. Or do you mean that graduates get
> better paying jobs and thus pay more taxes and that helps funding government
> programs?


There is that, if you want to look at it cynically.  But that investment
banker will probably pass on some knowledge to his or her underlings,
helping them to become better greedy investment bankers, etc.  People who
work necessarily promote the society in which they work -- that's why
someone gives them money for it.


> [...] US universities focus way too much on a broad education


It's "way too much" in your estimation only.  Most people who are part of
the system -- as students, faculty, or administration -- either consider it
just the right amount, or they quit.  But it's a system that's been working
for 200+ years.


> And I think that is why foreign workers especially in IT have an
> advantage.


And I think it goes back to the preparation angle.  Other countries place a
far higher emphasis on early education, and so therefore children are more
comfortable with math and science, and less likely to be called nerds and
geeks for it.  And, by the way, based on my totally unscientific,
insufficient, and now-cloudy observations from my days in industry, foreign
IT workers often have a far tougher time moving up the corporate ladder, and
potentially for the same reason that some Americans might -- an inability to
communicate effectively gets them labeled as "dumb" or "lazy", etc., by the
people whose opinions matter, when in fact, they might just be incredibly
smart and talented products of a technical school rather than a liberal arts
school.


> I'm not saying that an extra writing course is useless or that art history
> is utterly unimportant, but I think that is something that shouldn't be part
> of a university program.


(This is going to sound like I made it up just to argue the point, but I
swear it's true.)  I am refreshing my New York State EMT certification this
spring, and one of the instructors is a guy who was in my Art History class
in undergrad.  If I had the time and inclination, I could probably get a few
bucks out of him by offering to cut him a deal redesigning his employers'
web site.  If there are no other reasons, there's one for keeping Art
History in the Engineering program.  :)
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