NYCPHP Meetup

[inforequest]

Daniel Kushner kushner-at-gmail.com |nyphp 04/2004| wrote:

>It also isn't a
>one-size-fits-all solution for every PHP developer, but most I am sure
>feel that is something the PHP community needs - now!
>
>Best,
>Daniel
>

conviction = = good

buuuuuuut... I'm not sure how much the content of this thread truthfully 
agrees with it.

Chris said "there is a certain fundamental foundation you would want a PHP developer to possess regarding databases if you were
hiring. Some generic database questions should be expected."

and I think that's a goodpoint, that could use some clarification. Im my view a question about mysql_connect is unworthy on a PHP certification test. A question on PHP security, that uses a mysql_connect example, now that's a good question! 

Ditto for what Chris calls "generic database questions". As Tim highlighted, PHP doesn't operate in a vacuum. If there's one consistent criticism I see in the world about PHP, it's that PHP programmers try to use PHP to do things that are best done with other partners in the server or application space. Now an evangelist can argue how PHP can rightfully be extended to do those things, but do we want to breed developers to do things the PHP way even when they are not best practice (except in the PHP evangelist world?). I recognize that is a very tough question to answer. I also recognize that as PHP matures, it extends into those fringe areas and can even take them over. Kudos for PHP development, but I don't follow PHP evangelism blindly for risk of losing the practical expertise that I believe made my PHP work so important.

In many cases "PHP is the best choice" is very true. Around the fringe, I feel it should be "I choose to do that in PHP" and the choice should be based on wisdom; it must be aware of the pros and cons. A certification process that operates in a vacuum will do everything in PHP and test PHP knowledge and skills (kinda like the M$ certification). A real-world certification needs to address the pros and cons, foster an awareness of the interactions with partner and sister systems, and test competance on working in the mixed mode environment (working in it using PHP, for a PHP certification). That is what RHCE *ws* (before RH8 imho) and that's what CCNE was and still is imho. I have some killer "PHPand MySQL" books, but I don't have any good PHP books that do more than gloss over the database functionality in PHP, probably because the editors made the same assumptions (it's not a book about databases). 
 
So I believe it is short sighted to say it's a PHP certification and not a db certification as a way to justify incorporating coverage of php database commands and not databases in depth. If it's a PHP certification test, it may be very true that you need to know alot about databases in order to pass a worthwhile PHP certification exam. Maybe for non-database PHP'ers, that will be the part of the test where they get 55% wrong and still get an 80% grade for the overall PHP certification test and pass.

I am reminded of the Profesional Engineering Society exams. 8 hours of grueling engineering exams to get a Professional Engineering "License". Even if you're a Civil Engineer with 15 years of experience building bridges and skyscrapers, you will have a section on digital circuit design theory, or perhaps chemical engineering. Go ahead, get them all wrong, but then you better make sure your Civil Engineering part is perfect if you want to pass the exam. It just a fact of life that you will have to know something about these partner areas to be competent in the real world. Shouldn't "certification" be the proof of that competence?

My $0.03.. thanks for the very interesting and thought-provoking thread.