NYCPHP Meetup

[charles at softwareprototypes.com]

Hello Zeev,

there are several things about the script that you might consider
re-doing. This is criticism but its constructive criticism. That's
the kind that leads to better products.

Dialog control:

It should consist of the script, [split into two parts: 1) data
collection/validation and 2) execution,] and a control file of
labels, explanations and defaults which would at least record user
input after every question and allow recovery of keystrokes in case
of a "failure to proceed" 

I'd use an XML format file with the following information:

<questions>
 <question>
  <number> # 
  </number>
  <text> some meaningful ascii string. Not just the word "root," 
    but the root of WHAT? Avoid purely generic words.
    (this makes internationalization easy:
    just replace the text) 
  </text>
  <explanation> some meaningful ascii string which explains
    what the desired value might be and some hints as to how
    to disambiguate when the user might find many posible values.
    This should definitely avoid generic words since you want to
    get the user to provide specific answers.
    (this also makes internationalization easy:
    just replace the explanation)
  </explanation>
  <default> some value 
  </default>
  <validation> some Perl code to verify the value (possibly a
    function/method name to execute which is passed the user
    supplied/accepted value) 
  </validation>
  <actual> recorded keystrokes/accepted default, validated value
  </actual>
  <ok> NIL | F 
  </ok>
 </question>
 ...
</questions>

Dialog flow:

The script should gather all user input first, recording it in the
XML file and then proceed to the installation portion using the
<actual> information recorded in the XML file. 

When an value leads to a script's "failure to proceed" if should, if
possible, set the <ok> flag to false when it encounters a value that
leads to script failure (monitor the return values from processes you
fork off and synch with on their termination.)

If you wanted to get fancy, you might place 
  <condition> value, #
  </condition> 
and be able to implement a finite state machine which would give you
some "make" like control and capabilities.

Human-Machine Interface:

The creation of the <explanation> tags is really necessary. Without
them, even my SysAdmin friend who set up my slackware-8 box and
modified it to increase its robustness, doesn't want to attempt it.

-Charles-A. Rovira
276 Varick Street, The Garden,
Jersey City, NJ, 07302
(201)434-6088
-OR-
28 Vesey Street #2113,
NYC, NY, 10007-21906
(646)246-6088
 

> From: Zeev Suraski <zeev at zend.com>
> Organization: New York PHP
> Reply-To: talk at nyphp.org
> Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 11:09:18 -0400
> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at nyphp.org>
> Subject: Re: FW: [nycphp-talk] Installing ZendStudio_Server. Anybody
know how?
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I got forwarded this letter, and I want to try and gain as much as
possible 
> from it, in terms of improving the installations so that they fit 
> everyone's needs.  I just want you to know that the guys @Zend are
really 
> not Redhat-centric, and that installations get tested on most of
the big 
> distros.  It's impossible to support them all, but we do try :)
> 
> One thing I firmly believe in is that 'assumption is the mother of
all 
> mess-ups' (that's the G rated version) - in this case, we assume
that 
> everything's fine because we don't get bug reports, and you assume
that 
> we're aware of these problems and feel frustrated that we don't
care about 
> them enough to fix them.  In reality, apparently, there are
problems, but 
> we're not aware of them, and the result is negative...  Sorry for
the short 
> lecture :)
> 
> As for the problems with the installation, the Perl script,
assumptions 
> that you believe we make erroneously, unclear questions - please
let me 
> know about them.  I promise that we'll do our best to fix them in
the next 
> release (which is coming out very shortly).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Zeev
> 
>> From: charles at softwareprototypes.com
>> [mailto:charles at softwareprototypes.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 11:36 PM
>> To: NYPHP Talk
>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Installing ZendStudio_Server. Anybody
know
>> how?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello Hans,
>> 
>> good thing I'm NOT in a hurry. Still I'd like it installed before
the
>> next php course (May's got "canceled".)
>> 
>> I'll grant that slackware is perhaps not your run-of-the-mill
distro,
>> (atually it respects the Linux directory structure more than RedHat
>> does.) No customized set up will be perfectly compliant with any
>> scheme. Which makes explanation of the installer questions and
their
>> answers even more important.
>> 
>> Installing on Mac OS X would be a breeze since the ONLY way is the
OS
>> X way and the OS X installers don't have to contend with any
>> directory variance. Apps go in the Applications folder or one of
its
>> subfolders and that's that. Host servable Web documents go in
>> "<startUpDisk>:Library:WebServer:Documents:" User documents go in
>> "<startUpDisk>:Users:<user>:Sites:"
>> 
>> However,the Linux world is NOT Mac OS X. Its important to provide
>> good information so that installation can occur on the various
>> distributions. I think its a pain that only RedHat's directory
>> structure is supported right out of the tar file but that's my
>> opinion.
>> 
>> Still, its inexcusable that Zend does not provide enough
information
>> to let people who are using another distro to "roll their own". I'm
>> getting used to doing this since RedHat is our 800lb Gorilla
>> regardless of what I might think, but can't claim to be thrilled at
>> this "contre-temps" since it only the crappyness of the
installation
>> instructions that stands between me, multi-platform clients and a
>> usable ZendStudio Server.
>> 
>> -Charles-A
>> 
>>> From: Hans Zaunere <zaunere at yahoo.com>
>>> Organization: New York PHP
>>> Reply-To: talk at nyphp.org
>>> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 19:19:42 -0400
>>> To: NYPHP Talk <talk at nyphp.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [nycphp-talk] Installing ZendStudio_Server. Anybody
>> know how?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Basically their installer (a perl script) sucks. It asks
questions
>>>> that I can't figure out or can't find/disambiguate the right
answer
>>>> to. (I do "find / -name '<whatever>' -print" and come up with X
>>>> answers, which one am I supposed to use?)
>>> 
>>> Well I don't think I can make it to Jersey City any time soon, but
>> post
>>> what the questions are it asks you that are giving you trouble and
>>> maybe we can get you started.  The Perl script may very well be
>> poorly
>>> written, but Slackware is known for not being "your average" Linux
>>> distro these days; altough I'd never leave it.
>>> 
>>> Hans Z.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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> 
>